WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)

[Mandle]

Hmmmm, I was thinking Stupot was the Seer.

Oh well, he still made for a lovely stew!

Yup, sorry all, but I'm a wolf. I really didn't want to be but the luck of the draw and all that.

So, why am I telling you all this? Has all the killing driven me mad?!

No. You see, the wolves have basically already won:

WE CALL FOR THE FOOL TO COME FORWARD BY VOTING FOR THEMSELF!

Then the wolves will both vote for the Fool to be lynched and the wolves and the Fool win the game together!

In the case that we see multiple claims for the Fool role:

The wolves will pick the one we think is most likely to be the Fool.

In the case where we choose the wrong target:

Either that player will change their vote before the end of the turn or they will lose the game for the Good players.

If the wolves see the vote change in time we will also switch our votes.

If, as is likely, we don't do so in time we promise not to kill anyone during the next night phase. We have talked about this and have decided to stick by our promise as it's the more interesting way to win the game.

On the next Day Phase we will repeat the process of voting for a different Fool-claiming player.

We will continue doing this until we find the correct Fool.

And, even if the Fool doesn't believe our promise not to do a night kill this is still their best chance to get lynched today and win the game.

We're pretty sure we know who the Fool is anyway and so if they just vote for themself we can get this game over with.

[Mandle]

Oh, and in case the Fool is worried that I'm not a wolf and that I'm trying to trick them into revealing themself to narrow down the list of suspect wolves:

It doesn't matter in the slightest if you believe me or not.

Even if I'm not a wolf (but I am) the wolves now know about this strategy and would be silly not to vote to lynch someone who votes for themself.

[Mandle]

The Good players may attempt to fool the Fool with a promise that, if the Fool sides with them, they will lynch the Fool during the next Day Phase and help them get their win but...

They can't. If they don't lynch a wolf two days in a row they have lost the game. They have no time for Fool-lynching.

The only side that can help the Fool gain their own win is the big, hungry, hairy side

[tzachs]

Damn. I wanted to do this myself but Mandle took out all the fun from it. I'm the fool, lynch me please, thanks.

[tzachs]

Oh I forgot. My vote is: tzachs.

[Mandle]

I vote for tzachs

[Mandle]

Damn. I wanted to do this myself but Mandle took out all the fun from it. I'm the fool, lynch me please, thanks.

Hahaha sorry, mate. I guess I also wasted a lot of time rambling on about how the plan works when you already had it dialed in .

[tzachs]

No worries, I was thinking of how to phrase my pitch to the wolf that it's ok to come out now, trying to figure out if there's a chance they would not believe me, so you definitely helped me out there.

[Mandle]

Yeah, in this case the wolves pretty much know they are safe as long as the Fool doesn't vote for one of them.

There's only really two cases where the Fool would do so:

(1) The player doesn't understand the Fool role and thinks they are one of the good-guys.

(2) And I've actually seen this happen: The Fool player doesn't feel like this is an "honorable" way to get their win and so throws it away and sides with the Good players because they are "good" and that's better than if "evil" wins. Yeah, pretty dumb and disappointing way to play for both sides. Everyone in the game, winners and losers, ended up a bit miffed at that player.

[dayowlron]

I realize this is pointless since both wolves and the fool would vote for the fool leaving only me and the town to vote differently but I am switching my vote to Mandle

[Riaise]

Well, that's that, then. Although one non-wolf might as well get a win out of this so I'll vote tzachs.

[dayowlron]

Well if you are not a wolf you don't win by voting for the fool, but I see your point. pretty much game over. Riaise, I guess if you are not a wolf, tzachs is a fool, and i am a villager then you are the seer and josiah is the other wolf.

[josiah1221]

Hmmm, just giving up? I guess I might as well vote tzachs just in case someone changes their mind...

[Mandle]

As it seems this round is pretty much over I'd just like to say a few things:

Firstly, I really meant it when I said I'd hoped I wouldn't be a wolf in this round. I actually said "Shit!" out loud when I saw the PM that told me I was a wolf. I was actually looking forward to scum-hunting with this group of players. That would have been a much funner game for me. But the luck of the draw and all that.

That being said, all of the advice I gave for playing the game during this round was 100% accurate except for one stunt I pulled which would have tipped off experienced players that I was on the scum side:

I asked for everyone to state their most suspicious player but added the "IMPORTANT RULE" that noone should state their reason for this choice.

And a lot of people did so without anyone asking why reasons should not be stated.

Of course reasons should always be stated when pointing fingers. My plan was to get people pointing fingers early on and before anyone really knew anything to instill some mistrust between the Good players for having a finger pointed at them for no reason by someone else. I mean, why would anyone even do that, right? They must know something already and therefore are a bit suspicious...

I'm guessing people followed my ridiculous rule of "no reasons" because they are new to the game and knew that I am not and thought there might actually be some deep gameplay reason why this rule existed. This is what I was counting on and I'll admit I felt pretty dirty when it worked.

I had honestly been hoping someone would call me out on the "no reason" rule. If this game continues in these forums or if you ever play it in any form again: The player asking for people to put forward an opinion but without being able to say why is almost 100% certainly scum. Why would a town player ever want to restrict extra, potentially valuable, information?

And this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty. I tried to do it in a way that could open me up to difficult questions later on like "So, Mandle, that thing about posting a suspect each day without reasons. Where did that go?" when I didn't even try to continue it on the second day phase and I appeared to have completely forgotten about it.

Of course, the rest of my advice was selective: I didn't mention any strategies that would bust the WW team immediately. I didn't really want to win this round for the WWs as I thought that would probably just make all players so far frustrated with the game and think "What's the point?! The werewolves always win!" but at the same time this game is only fun if everyone is trying their hardest to gain their own win. Who would want to win against someone who was slacking off their skill on purpose?

So, yeah, my advice was selective, but also true: The wolves do often create a drama between them in Day Phase #1 because it is safe to do so, probably noone is going to get lynched, and it creates an example they can fall back on later to say "But look what I did there!"...

Other advice I mentioned like "Look more at what people do than what they say" are also true... Anyone can say anything until challenged to actually commit an action that proves they are really behind what they said... And we see this all the time with politicians in RL... So, think of the wolves as politicians trying to cover their asses at all costs and you will go a long way to spotting their mistakes and hidden agendas.

This plays out more in longer games with 10+ players and where the town has more Day Phases to talk. Well, players in here had quite of a bit of a chance to talk but didn't really know what to say or ask. This is probably due to inexperience and/or not a huge personal interest invested in a forum game they joined to help out with player numbers and/or just to see how it goes.

I really hope this game can gain some traction as it is honestly really fun as long as people don't get butthurt over being fooled, having someone on their team let them down by giving something away unintentionally, or just plain bad luck.

The whole idea is to have a good laugh when you either fool everyone and/or get fooled.

[Mandle]

Oh, and to continue that last sentence because we are still under the "no edits" rule:

EDIT: The whole idea is to have a good laugh when you either fool everyone and/or get fooled, or see through all, or most of, the fooling and win a town victory!

[dayowlron]

I know that the wolves have a big advantage in that from the start of the game they know who is town and who is scum. I do know there should be at least 2 wolves just because if the seer finds the wolf there would be no reason for him to keep it secret that he is the seer, but with 2 wolves having less than 8 town gives the wolves a much better chance of winning from an odds perspective. This is because the town needs some towns people to be able to be lynched because each turn there is no lynching the wolves get 1 turn closer to winning because they will always kill during the night.
I had thought about in this last round saying that I was the fool and voting for myself so the wolves would be confused enough they wouldn't know who was telling the truth and possibly not voting for the correct fool but then I would have been lynched and it would have been game over anyways. The only difference would have been the fool wouldnt get a win.

[Riaise]

I had honestly been hoping someone would call me out on the "no reason" rule.

If I'd been around that day then I would have done. I actually thought it was weird thing to ask everyone to do when I read through the posts later, but it was the night phase by then so I couldn't say anything and I'd forgotten about it by the next day. It still didn't ring any alarm bells, though, so I probably would have bought whatever excuse you came up with, anyway!

I'll add more thoughts once the game is officially over.

[Mandle]

Yeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...

Or that no non-town neutral role like the Fool should be in games with 8 or less players.

I regretted including the Fool in my initial game and mentioned so but I actually don't regret that this round was won with the Fool's cooperation: This is a potential end-game function of the Fool role that is not obvious from just reading the role description and can only really be learned through playing exactly the game that has just unfolded...

But, yeah, 8 players or less should probably be balanced with 2 wolves, 1 Seer, 1 Bodyguard, and the rest Villagers, with no neutral roles.

[Sinitrena]

Suddenly, a scream pierces the, well, not silence. It was pretty loud in the room before, but this shriek certainly pierces something.

All eyes, including your own, turn to

Spoiler

tzachs

[close]

who stood in the back until moments ago but pushes through the crowd now.

He screams into your face. First, it is inarticulate, primal, but when his breathing becomes more ragged from the exhaustion, he actually starts to form words.

<Ate them... Everyone... Devoured them... Their flesh, their blood...>

You think to yourself that he must have gone mad from what he has done.

Nah, who are you trying to fool? Yourself? You know perfectly well that if this

Spoiler

fool

[close]

has gone mad, it is not from eating his friends during the night.

The town jumps on the self-accusation. They believe it. Who wouldn't go mad from prowling around at night, ripping apart innocent people, lighting a fire to cook them?

And you jump on the opportunity as well. Why shouldn't you?

You help your fodder to drag the poor man outside to the makeshift gallows on the market place.

When the neck snaps, you can't hold it anymore. You start to laugh, just as loud, just as mad as

Spoiler

tzachs.

[close]

Why should you hold back now?

One by one, your former friends realize what you are and what you, what they, have done. They look on, helpless, as you change in front of their very eyes, now secure in your position, how your claws sink into the flesh of

Spoiler

dayowlron

[close]

before the look of horror has fully manifested on his face.

You do not rip him apart just now. You don't need to, you have time. Your fodder can wait. You throw him into the tavern's cellar, to be enjoyed later.

Spoiler

Riaise

[close]

puts up more of a fight. She

Spoiler

fires a spell in your direction and

[close]

you and the other wolf have to attack her together to get her down. With her last breath she

Spoiler

curses you.
<Never shall you walk the face of earth again by day. Never shall you look upon the sun again. Never shall you feel its heat without its fire. Never shall...>

[close]

You do not hear her last words but you feel the sun burning into your flesh before the first bite of her flesh fills your stomach. Your fur starts to shrink away, your claws become normal fingernails again. You start to run to the safety of your houses.

The

Spoiler

seer

[close]

has turned you into

Spoiler

sun-fearing vampires.

[close]

(I had to give the town something...)



Votes:

dayowlron: josiah1221 Mandle
Mandle: tzachs
Riaise: tzachs
tzachs: tzachs
josiah1221: tzachs


The town decided to lynch

Spoiler

tzachs, who was

Spoiler

the fool, which means

Spoiler

a win for the wolves.

[close]

[close]

[close]

I'm sure nobody is surprised by this outcome by now.


Role reveal:

Spoiler

Stupot: Villager
dayowlron: Villager
Mandle: Wolf
Riaise: Seer
tzachs: Fool
Adeel: Villager
josiah1221: Alpha Wolf
VampireWombat: Guard

[close]

With that, the second AGS Werewolf Game is over.

The thread is open to discussion for everyone. Feedback of all kind welcome!

[VampireWombat]

Well, that was... interesting.
That'll teach me never to guard a werewolf ever again.