A UFO theory.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

What bothers me about Penn is as much as he pretends to be a free-thinker and not buying into bias he was right there to suck up the nonsense about Ron Paul writing racist propaganda (which has since been proven entirely false) and he's also one of those libertarian-hypocrites that won't stand up and vote for a person regardless of whether they think they can win or not.  That's just one of the things I have against him.

[evenwolf]

What bothers me about Penn is as much as he pretends to be a free-thinker and not buying into bias he was right there to suck up the nonsense about Ron Paul writing racist propaganda (which has since been proven entirely false) and he's also one of those libertarian-hypocrites that won't stand up and vote for a person regardless of whether they think they can win or not.  That's just one of the things I have against him.

If you mean during the primaries that's one thing.   Voting for Ron Paul would have been a good move.  The press didn't cover him nearly enough.


But any conservative who thinks Obama will harm America..... and so votes for Bob Barr.    Um.... well that's not the best move.   You waste your vote during the general election if you don't vote for Obama or McCain.   No one in Tennessee had ANY business voting for Nader in 2000.   Those votes were a factor towards Bush's victory and harmed the nation in irreparable ways. 

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I don't believe in either:

a) Wasting your vote

or

b) Voting for the lesser of two evils


Voting for who you believe in is the foundation of American Democracy.  To do otherwise is disingenuous and self-defeating.  I think the main problem with society now is that everyone is so obsessed with being on the winning team that they don't realize that if they just stick with the side they believe in they could very well win.  And it's not just about winning, it's about ideals and believing in something strongly enough to stand by it.  I certainly have no confidence in Obama, Hillary, or McCain when they're just CFR toadies, and I also don't believe in party unity for the sake of it.  This is why I support Ron Paul even now, because he's always been very logical and reasonable in his views and doesn't buy the party unity scam.  If people have a difference in ideals then they need to resolve those issues, not bury them behind a war horse like McCain who won't do anything good for the nation.  I'm not specifically talking about Barr because our current climate does everything it possibly can to marginalize 3rd party candidates, which is wrong and needs to change.  Anyway, this is veering way off topic so I'll just say:

Watch They Live if you like alien conspiracy films. 

[evenwolf]

So long as the voter understands that we live in a representative democracy,  then I'm happy when they vote for whomever they wish.

But swing states with ill-informed voters don't jive well with me.

[Dualnames]

well, I'd really love to have aliens crawling the place with blasters and stuff but the very fact is this.. Do you have any idea how close is the closest solar system(not the one with living forms)? About more than a year with the light of speed. And another fact, what if we managed to get the light of speed. What makes you think a human life form could sustain the G's? It's virtually impossible.

[Babar]

Do you have any idea how close is the closest solar system(not the one with living forms)?

And how close is the one with living forms?

[Nacho]

I think proxima centauri is 2 lightyears away, not sure if it has planets... first "solar system" that "might" have life 42 l.y. I think... Still, the possibility of that "live" being something more than cells is smaller (Being a civilization almost impossible).

[evenwolf]

Viral Marketing is supposedly "news"

http://www.facelesspeople.com/


Lotus cars unveiling a new sports car...  but I sense there might be cross promotion with X-Files.   What do you think?   


I happen to think, "DAMN YOU J.J. Abrams!  Damn you viral marketing!"

[DazJ]

Interesting topic. I personally think aliens are living amongst us right now. Bush, for example; there's no way he's on the same planet as the rest of us

[[Cameron]]

Peoples arguments of "The human body couldn't make that kind of trip" and "There is no technology enabling us to travel that far" is rather illogical. If aliens exist, why would they be the same as us? The mere fact they are alien implies a different physiology and that they have acclimated to a very different sort of living, so their technology would be vastly different, possibly superior, possibly lesser, but the point is you can't argue with someones belief when your whole argument is "Well we can't do it, so no one can."

[Nacho]

Peoples arguments of "The human body couldn't make that kind of trip" and "There is no technology enabling us to travel that far" is rather illogical. If aliens exist, why would they be the same as us? The mere fact they are alien implies a different physiology and that they have acclimated to a very different sort of living, so their technology would be vastly different, possibly superior, possibly lesser, but the point is you can't argue with someones belief when your whole argument is "Well we can't do it, so no one can."

Saying "We can't do it... It's unlikely they can do it" is logical. It is a statement based on the observation of the only tecnological society we can examine (our). Saying "they might can" is illogical... It' s based on nothing. Extraordinary statemets need extraordinary evidences, and the evidences of they visiting us are extremelly weak. If you say there is a dragon under your bed, prove it.

But it' s not just that "we can' t do it..."

The thing is in 3600 million years of life in earth, only a race (us) managed to have a tecnology greater than just using a stick or a stone.

Maybe a tecnological society is not so common as we think.

Anyway, what is illogical is to think that those guys are smart enough for travelling for million years and then, here, they are stupid enough to forget of switching the lights of the saucer off...

[[Cameron]]

Saying "We can't do it... It's unlikely they can do it" is logical. It is a statement based on the observation of the only tecnological society we can examine.
...
Maybe a tecnological society is not so common as we think.

But you've just said exactly what I'm saying Nacho. What we assume of another race is based purely on knowledge of our own world. It is logical to make assumptions within our world, based on our world, but to assume that a planet in a far away galaxy can't do something based on what we know of ourselves is illogical. It's galactic apples and oranges!
Also, there are some societies on this planet which are not technological, so it's entirely likely that an alien race is not as technological as us, I said that myself. I'm more talking about the biological side of things here rather than the technological.
When people say that life couldn't exist on other planets, because we haven't found one like Earth, and it's our unique planet that supports life, it seems rather silly because to say that to be recognized as life, a species must be like us, is rather arrogant.
It's like saying Hamsters can't survive in an aquarium. This is obviously true. But in that aquarium, which is vastly different to a cage, is a place where fish can live because their biology permits then to exist exclusively underwater.

[Nacho]

As said, I am based on something to say they are not able to arrive here. Your idea is based in... nothing.

I ask you again... Dragons exist?

[evenwolf]

It's like saying Hamsters can't survive in an aquarium. This is obviously true. But in that aquarium, which is vastly different to a cage, is a place where fish can live because their biology permits then to exist exclusively underwater.

Whatever you need to say to debate the existence of aliens, be my guest.

I'd like to go out on a limb and say searching for alien life by looking for similar conditions which led to life on earth is  the best method.    That's not to say there's not non-carbon based lifeforms out there.   

But for the same reason a fish would expect a hamster to breathe with gills, humans believe that aliens use similar means of transportation.      I'll stick with the opinion that these lifeforms have no plausibility of driving around in big metal cars like humans.   It's literally science fiction in the sense that the idea never existed before these comic books and movies in the 1950's.  Earlier sitings would have been attributed to some other false deity.

Hence, sitings of flying metal saucers = bogus.

[EldKatt]

Aliens could be visiting us. They could be visiting us in metal vehicles. Are they, though? Well, it's hopefully obvious where the burden of evidence lies. So, to keep the discussion in the realm of the useful, let's do this: how about the UFO believers pick out one particular piece of evidence that you find particularly convincing, and we can discuss that. I think this is more fertile than throwing general conclusions around.

[Stupot]

In regards to my original post -
Every Sun since this thread began has included at least one article about UFO's and this Saturday's Sun newspaper (owned by Murdoch remember) was advertising a section of their website called...

The British X-Files

Still not convinced that it has a little something to do with the new movie released by FOX (also Murdoch) in less than a month?

[evenwolf]

It certainly makes them more likely to publish UFO related articles than normal.

[m0ds]

Evidence I'd like to suggest is crop circles.

From this month:


(lunar eclipse in aug this year using mayan calendar)

From June this year:




(the pi symbol)

From August 2001:



All from Wiltshire, UK. It gets dark at about 10pm and light by 4am. Fuck knows how a group of people could carry out so much accuracy in such a short space of time. And did you know the crop is undamaged, though sometimes perfectly mutilated to "bend"?

[evenwolf]

Those ARE cropcircles.  I will not disagree with you.   On the origin of cropcircles however...


Its just ropes, boards, and a lot of spare time.   Cropcircles are an art form like anything else. ( graffiti comes to mind)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a_opN9ghPKQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=niH9ClOse3M

Beautiful stuff indeed, but not inhuman.  There's a group called Circlemakers who even make a profit from these circles.  They've become fantastically specialized.  If you own some land & you want to be on the local news look no further.



So which part of the post above are you providing as evidence?  The quality of the craftsmanship? I've provided evidence of humans creating crop circles... mods if you could provide evidence of aliens making them...    I will then believe you..  After all I want to believe, I really do.

On the matter of darkness and the impossibility of such precision.... wouldn't a hovering UFO with a laser be more visible than a few guys on foot?

[darrkchylde]

crop circls are made by dudes. its da pyramids that da aliens mad