Java game development for beginners?

[Sparky]

I'm currently working on a small java game. I've never before worked on a game without the aid of a framework like AGS, so it's both challenging and fun. The most difficult part so far has been designing all the classes so they'll work together in a somewhat orderly fashion. I'm really not very familiar with object oriented programming yet.

So the question is, are any folks around here familiar with a forum or resources that might help an enthusiastic beginner learn the ropes? For reference the project is an old-fashioned roleplaying game in the vein of ADOM or Rogue.

I've found a lot of tutorials, but don't have any reference books yet. And I have yet to find a forum that doesn't seem to be populated by neanderthals.

Thanks advance for any suggestions. And as an aside, I'm absolutely not abandoning my AGS project, I'm just temporarily shifting gears because I'm taking a Java class this semester.

[MillsJROSS]

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/

Not really the ropes of game creation. With Java you probably want to look at the swing libraries. But I've found the best place, as far as seeing what code does, is that Java site. Game making, I don't know. I created a backgammon game with Java, but I found the graphical libraries provided to be awkward to that of C++ libraries I had fiddled around with. Although, the difference is the C++ was a graphics library for game creation, and Java's was just a graphics library.

If I were you, I'd start on a small game. Something to give you an idea of how to build your own framework that you know works.

-MillsJROSS

[Sparky]

I'm actually already using the API documentation as a reference, but your comments are appreciated.

I made a couple of small applications in preparation for this one, and I'm definitely left with an impression similar to yours. As far as low level graphical control goes, C or C++ libraries are much more helpful. And for any serious 3d effort I wouldn't even consider Java an option. (I've done a little work with C and C++ in the past.) I chose to learn Java for a few reasons, and game development was rather far down the list. That being said, this particular game fits Java somewhat better than most. It's very graphically uncomplicated, and development plans include an applet version and standalone versions for multiple platforms; with only one developer who's really not a programmer at heart, Java seemed appealing.


Here's an extremely early screenshot- tinkering with a couple of creatures for the overworld. For the record, the final graphics code hasn't been started yet.

If MillsJROSS or anyone has any further suggestions or knows of good books or online resources, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

[zabnat]

I'm not sure of your level of knowledge and experience with Java, but here's one tip:
Why not use something like JGame at first. Go through the tutorials and then do a really small game using the stuff you learned from tutorials. What I've learned is that making that yet another version of pacman or breakout is really not that stupid, it's great practice.
Just my two cents.

[fred]

That JGame looks prety cool. 

I can also recommend the book Killer Game Programming in Java. It covers both 2D and 3D games, and I think it's very good at explaining the object oriented design, with many class diagrams for different parts of the sample games.

[Sparky]

zabnat- JGame looks pretty neat. And it might be a good way to learn higher level concepts without getting mired in the details of making your own engine.

fred- I actually saw that in the bookstore, but I wasn't sure how helpful it would be for 2d games. That sounds like it would be useful though, especially as a way of improving my meager knowledge of object oriented design. My class diagram looks sort of like a giant bird's nest right now, or perhaps a wrestling match involving several dozen earthworms.  I could definitely use the help- I think I'll go out and buy a copy.

The only thing I still have yet to find is a nice forum for beginner level questions. I've looked around at the sun developer network and JavaWorld forums, but a lot of people there seem to post very carelessly and respond to each other in an apathetic, ego-driven way. I guess the AGS forums have sort of spoiled me, I should probably just bite the bullet and tolerate the eccentricities of the average forum environment. That said, if there are any quality java forums I've missed out there, I'd very much appreciate a heads up.

Cheers everyone, I'm pretty much set. Thanks again!