The Meaning of Life

[deadsuperhero]

Hey, I posted this on my blog, I thought I would share it. I really love it, and I would like to see your opinions.
I've finally nailed it. The big one. With my best friend Zac, we have solved the meaning of life, a connection of religion, and how to truly live.
We've been having a lot of sleepovers lately, watching countless horror movies, reading books, gaming, and most importantly, talking. Anywho, I had to take Zac to the dentist in the morning, and on the way back, we started talking about death, and philosophy, and then it all hit us.

First off, did you know that virtually every religion has a messiah figure? They all fullfill many of the Biblical prophecies, all of them crucified, claiming to be the Son of a divine being. All of them lived pure lives, cared for the poor. None of them ever broke bones, all of them rose from the dead in 3 days.
Now, according to the Christian Bible, Jesus is the only way into Heaven. But, Jesus and God are one and the same, and God Himself says that He has many names.
Put two and two together. These messiahs of different religions are all one and the same. Every single religion is based on one core religion. It's possible that God (or whatever you want to call him) created different teachings, in order to force us to learn. Unfortunately, humanity distorted it enough to believe that only their version is the correct one, and that all other religions are sinners, and therefore are going to Hell.
Let's take the concept of Hell for a moment. What do you picture? Fire and brimstone? Actually, the Bible hardly describes Hell at all, neither does the Koran, or the Torah. What if Hell isn't really a lifetime punishment, but a lifetime lesson? For instance, if you went through life as a murderer, you would restart your life over when you die. Only the situation is altered to show you a different angle, therefore giving you a fair chance. And, once you live by the easy standards of the core teachings (Be compassionate, love one another, never judge, keep an open mind), when you die, you go to Heaven (or whatever you wish to call the "good" afterlife)
What constitutes good? Is it "the opposite of evil"? If so, then what is "evil"? These words are absolutes, and are therefore irrelevant. Morals are only picked up by your surroundings. If you're raised by people who are polite, you'll be pretty polite yourself.
That said, is there really a right or wrong? Most definately, as taking the life of another is said to be wrong. But, if they die, aren't they going to a better place, or at least going to restart their life to learn more? It's an interesting question, one that I cannot answer.
However, there is one truth that everyone must know, and I'm going to quote Socrates a bit. The only way you can understand anything, is by knowing that you don't know anything. All our sciences, mathematics, they're essentially guesswork. They're good guesses, and they can explain what happens, to an extent. But, although they can explain things partially, they can never explain why, they can only explain how.

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Now, this is all very good, but you're still wondering: what's the meaning of life? I'll tell you.

The Meaning of Life is to die.

Now, don't panic. The Meaning of Life is only half of what you need to know. To full understand The Meaning of Life, you have to understand the Meaning of Death.

The Meaning of Death is to value life.

Therefore, they complete each other. You die, that's your point in living. But, death's point is to give your life value, making you actually give your life its own point. It's that simple.

And finally, for those of you who disagree.
None of this actually matters.
Why? Because of free will. God loves free will, that's why he gave it to humans. You're free to think what you want, to believe what you want.
And it doesn't affect your fate at all. Only your actions will affect your fate, never your logic, never your thinking, lifestyle, beliefs, or creed. That is because God loves you, and it's high time you came and realized that.
So, use this information. Spread it around.

"The poets are only the interpreters of the Gods."
-Socrates

[Vince Twelve]

First off, did you know that virtually every religion has a messiah figure? They all fullfill many of the Biblical prophecies, all of them crucified, claiming to be the Son of a divine being. All of them lived pure lives, cared for the poor. None of them ever broke bones, all of them rose from the dead in 3 days.

Name two.

And even if there are similarities between religions, is it really that they are all true, or based on truth?  Or is it that they're all based on the same lie?

[evenwolf]

I'm happy for you that you had a revelation.   While I do not share your thoughts,  I know the feeling of being awakened and can appreciate for you what that once meant to me.

[Gregjazz]

Just because a religion is a distortion of a "core religion" (as you put it) doesn't make them the same. Especially since in this case, distortion of this "core religion" would entail the addition of material. So rather than being a "distortion", I would consider them corruptions, instead.

First off, did you know that virtually every religion has a messiah figure? They all fullfill many of the Biblical prophecies, all of them crucified, claiming to be the Son of a divine being. All of them lived pure lives, cared for the poor. None of them ever broke bones

I don't know if He broke any bones, but boy Jesus was not joking around when He went to the temple and drove out all the people buying and selling.

Now, according to the Christian Bible, Jesus is the only way into Heaven. But, Jesus and God are one and the same, and God Himself says that He has many names.

Put two and two together. These messiahs of different religions are all one and the same.

It sounds like you're getting five out of two and two. That just isn't logical. Just because God Himself says He has many names doesn't mean he's synonymous with all the Messiahs of various religions. You're making that connection via your statement that all religions claim a Messiah that is perfect, etc. What religion would not say their Messiah is perfect, led pure lives, cared for the poor, etc.? It doesn't mean they all are one and the same.

Every single religion is based on one core religion. It's possible that God (or whatever you want to call him) created different teachings, in order to force us to learn.

Force us to learn? Free will is about our choice to reject God--"forcing us to learn" would be an enfringement of that.

Unfortunately, humanity distorted it enough to believe that only their version is the correct one, and that all other religions are sinners, and therefore are going to Hell.

Certainly all religions believe they are the true religion--this is even seen on the denominational level. However, at least with the denominations, a lot of the differences pertain to dogma-related issues. Just for example in terms of Christianity: in the Bible, the conditions to be saved are put very simply:

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
"If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." 1 John 4:15

Let's take the concept of Hell for a moment. What do you picture? Fire and brimstone? Actually, the Bible hardly describes Hell at all, neither does the Koran, or the Torah.

Errr...

Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liarsâ€"their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 14:10 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

The Bible, at least, is pretty explicit about what Hell is.

Anyway, just get your facts right. It doesn't give your theories much credibility.

Everybody knows the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is 42.

[space boy]

I agree that death is one of the things that makes us recognize the value of life. But I don't agree that our purpose in life is to die. If that is so, and living life itself has no purpose why don't we just commit suicide to get there quicker? That's such a pesimistic way of thinking. I'm not looking forward to die. I don't know what will happen to me after death. I may go to hell, go to heaven, restart my life, start a new life or disapear into oblivion. Whatever, I don't know. I know life however. So my philosophy is:

"The purpose of life is to live"

or

"The path is the goal"

Also the talking about god and free will and how all religions basically talk about the same may work for you, but it doesn't for me. I've gone through similar contemplations. Anything "spiritual" doesn't do the job for me. I admit that I had a "new age" phase in my life, which means basically cherry picking elements from different religions to build a world view that comforts me. But that is delusional and silly. The world won't become better if you explain it with some wacky ideology. As far as explaining the universe I think science does a pretty good job. Humans may not know everything but we continue to learn more and more. Even if we don't learn all the rules that govern this(and maybe other) universe(s) do we even need to know everything to lead happy and fulfiled lifes?

To sum it up: I'm not thinking about death right now. I will find out soon enough what will happen when I die. My purpose in this life is to make myself, and the people I care for, happy.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Monty Python got it right. IT's all about being nice to fishies.

The only major flaw in your argument is that it's feeding from very tricky points. It starts on religion, somewhere in the middle of hell you mention re-incarnation, and you try to end it on a "free will" argument.

Well, not everyone believes in religion.
Not everyone believes in reeincarnation.
Not everyone believes in free will - some people think it's all destined to be.
And all these people know as much as you, have acess to the same information, and maybe, just maybe, they're right. We just don't know.

Not a bad train of thought, all told, but in order to be truly valid you need to erase a lot of concepts you've taken on as granted. You were inches away from the Catholic conclusion, "The meaning of life is to be good and love one another".

[tube]

To sum it up: I'm not thinking about death right now. I will find out soon enough what will happen when I die. My purpose in this life is to make myself, and the people I care for, happy.

Amen. We are not tools, we are not things made for a specific task; we do not need a purpose. But if one must be chosen, space boy has pretty much hit the target. Wasting time on pointless debate and discussion about this seems... well.. pointless. Unless it makes you happy I guess.

I'll not even touch the flimsy attempt at yet another Grand Theological Unification Theory. It is admittedly interesting while very natural that the basic building blocks of many ancient religions are the same, but this isn't proof of any of them being right. Much less of any of them being more right than the others. It might be proof of the existence of some kind of religion back when our ancestors were few and before they started "filling the earth" if you will. Or maybe it just proves that our minds work pretty much the same all over the world.

Belief is nothing but belief, irrespective of the amount of believers.

[deadsuperhero]

Ah, but here's the part I either was too tired to put in, or totally forgot to write.

You don't HAVE to believe any of it. Your beliefs don't actually affect your fate, your actions do.
As for the "force us to learn part"...that was badly phrased. I didn't mean force in the bad sense. Perhaps "train" would've been a better word. It's best to just say "I don't know" here. It's completely possible that all religions branched out from one main religion.

Gregjazz: Although it mentions a "second death" and "fire", it never directly mentions Hell. As for broken bones, I meant they never broke any of their own bones.

Vince Twelve: This youtube video, although full of propoganda, explains things pretty well about similarities about different messiahs. I'm not saying believe the video, I'm saying that it's a good reference point, to look up the actual stories themselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aW2N46vf4Q

[monkey0506]

Yes...yes indeed.

[Oddysseus]

My personal philosophy of life comes from the following lyrics by Kid Rock:
"You can look for answers, but that ain't fun/ Now get in the pit, and try to love someone!"

Perhaps his beneficent wisdom can be a guide to you all as well.

[Gregjazz]

Gregjazz: Although it mentions a "second death" and "fire", it never directly mentions Hell. As for broken bones, I meant they never broke any of their own bones.

Get your facts right. Hell is mentioned thirteen times in the New Testament, eleven times of which are spoken by Jesus Himself. Not to mention hell's synonyms: Hades, Sheol, etc.

Want specific references? Here are a few:

Matthew 5:29-30 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell."

Matthew 25:41, 46 "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;...,"And these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life"

Mark 9:43-44 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

Revelation 20:15 "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Matthew 18:8-9 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell."

Luke 12:5 "But l will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell, yes, I tell you, fear Him! "

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Revelation 19:2 "And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who had worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive in the lake of fire which bums with brimstone."

Jude 1:7 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

[Recluse]

I probably shouldn't get into this... But I will...

My personal philosophy is thus:

• Mankind was created innocent and "good" (Gen. 1-2)
  
• Mankind fell out of right relationship with God, and became inherently evil (Gen. 3)
  
• Mankind cannot redeem themselves (Rom. 3:23)
  
• Mankind can only be redeemed through Christ (John 14:6)
  
• Once one has been redeemed one has been changed permanently. (2Cor. 5:17)
  
• Once we have been redeemed, Christ continues to change us for the better. (Heb. 10:14)
  

This process of continual change is best termed "Behavior Modification", as we constantly evaluate ourselves and our condition, we seek to become more like Christ through the study of his word and a personal relationship. This process of Behavior Modification is complete only after being accepted into the Kingdom of God.

Here's the beef:

By this philosophy, Christians can't do things to "earn" their salvation. We are inherently evil. Once we receive Christ's free gift, we are saved. Because of this salvation, and in recognition and appreciation of Christ's free gift, we continue to strive to do good works. Not because these good works save us, but out of gratitude, and a desire to be as like Christ as possible in a sinful state.

/quote]

None of this actually matters.
Why? Because of free will. God loves free will, that's why he gave it to humans. You're free to think what you want, to believe what you want.
And it doesn't affect your fate at all. Only your actions will affect your fate, never your logic, never your thinking, lifestyle, beliefs, or creed. That is because God loves you, and it's high time you came and realized that.

This portion of Alliance's original post can best be termed "Universalism". It is directly contradictory to Jesus' own teachings in John 14:6 (Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. NKJV). If we are truly free to believe whichever messiah we want, and if all the messiahs are one and the same, then Jesus' can't be one of the true messiahs, because in order to believe in Jesus (i.e. in EVERYTHING he says), one has to believe that no one can come to the Father except through him. If all the other messiahs are just as  good, Jesus is wrong.

I am afraid that I cannot allow for Jesus to be wrong.

P.S. Never thought I would be able to have such a discussion on a Game Dev forum. How cool!

[Gregjazz]

By this philosophy, Christians can't do things to "earn" their salvation. We are inherently evil. Once we receive Christ's free gift, we are saved. Because of this salvation, and in recognition and appreciation of Christ's free gift, we continue to strive to do good works. Not because these good works save us, but out of gratitude, and a desire to be as like Christ as possible in a sinful state.

To clarify (from my own beliefs), Christ's free gift has been given to everyone. Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins, and therefore changed the terms of what it takes to have everlasting life. Rather than being accountable for all your sins, He has paid for them all. The terms have been changed to that you just have one decision, which is at the crux of free will: you have the choice to reject Jesus.

[LimpingFish]

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

I like how the bible sets up Man as kick-ass king of the world on page one. They could've stopped right there, and everybody would have been happy.

Put in a few dinosaur attacks and we'd have the ingredients for some primo fiction.

The meaning of life is to live. Hang around too long without using it, and it gets taken away.

Help that leper because you want to, not because you'll get a silver star on your soul. Or don't help that leper. Step over him, safe in the knowledge that the only who will suffer from your decision is the leper. It's up to you, and nobody is keeping a scorecard.

Surely the person who helps the leper because he figures it will earn him brownie points in the afterlife is the real selfish bastard here?

The agnostic in me refuses to discuss the existence of a God, as it is impossible to determine such from our perspective or experience.

Therefore, to live your life in service to, or by the "teachings" of, the unknowable is, to the agnostic, just as pointless an activity.

Of course "Blind Faith" is an pleonasm, as by the very nature of believing in the existence of God, your faith in Him is based on the unknowable.

On the other hand, to argue against living your life according to God is an equally pointless pursuit, and one best left to the atheist.

[Wellington]

To the original poster:

Two problems:

1) You suggest that the meaning you've found is not only unscientific, based on stories rather than direct evidence, but also is somehow better for being unscientific, since science is "guesswork."

2) You seem to also believe that because you want something to be true, that means that it must be. This isn't just a religious error, as everybody does this, religious or not. Trained scientists sometimes prefer an elegant theory over a correct one, until reality gives them a quick kick in the shins.

Addressing point 1)

The claim that all science and mathematics is guesswork is dubious. Mathematics isn't guesswork - it could be meaningless symbol-shuffling, but guesswork it is not. If the premises of a proof are accepted, the conclusion follows. If the premises are not accepted, no conclusion can be drawn.

As for science being guesswork, I think a better term for it would be "argument from imperfect knowledge," which should never be mere guesswork. The claim that a suspect is guilty beyond reasonable doubt shouldn't be guesswork, either, unless the jury is truly incompetent. Even if a smart jury is deceived, they will make a false conclusion from false evidence, not a guess. The same holds for scientific claims. I could say that the moon only weighs twelve grams, but I wouldn't get published in a solid journal unless I gave evidence, and I wouldn't be widely accepted until people had found other evidence on their own. That people sometimes get wrong answers says less about science than it does about human prejudices, errors, and limitations.

Guesswork would be randomizing the constants we stick in physics textbooks. Guesswork would be convicting criminals based on a throw of the dice. We try not to do this. Even pre-scientific societies reason from observations and experience. For example, executing people for minor crimes encourages petty criminals to kill during the getaway - what have they got to lose? People observed this, and refined their legal codes appropriately. This wasn't really scientific, but it wasn't guesswork.

On to claim 2)

What IS guesswork?

Guesswork is saying, "While most major religions claim to be true, I'm going to believe in religion X, and pick and choose the parts of Religion X I like, because I want the world to be that way."

This does not mean that all religious thought is pure guesswork. It wouldn't be guesswork to say "I believe in God because I have a persistent sense that God exists, and I believe in Christianity because this sense is strongest when I read the New Testament, and very weak when I look at the Koran." Nor would it be guesswork to defend Islam in the same way. This is argument from personal experience. However, it would not be a good argument to convince somebody else to believe. Personal evidence is personal.

Sometimes people tell me that I should seek perfect, infallible truth in religion because science sometimes gets things wrong, and they have strong, personal evidence of the Spirit of God. These very same people take offense when somebody who has found a perfect, infallible, personal religious truth tries to make them explode.

[Andail]

The problem with the scriptures is that they don't get perfected, or at least they haven't been for very long; they're not even meant to be updated.

Science is to a certain percentage all about assuming things, but at least it keeps presenting better models.
Whenever a scientist presents a new model for how the universe is built, only very few hardheaded reactionaries actually cry "sacrilege!" whereas the scientist collective as a whole see it as an improvement, something fruitful.
On the other hand, you could never walk up to a group of priests and say "look here, I took your bible and changed a couple of chapters I didn't like. This new version is much better!"
Although, of course, this has been done in the past (the big councils in e.g. Nicaea 325)

I agree with Wellington that personal evidence should be respected and not equaled with guesswork, but the issue - I think - is that there is seldom a congregation who's taken certain aspects of its core religion and improved them. Instead they keep re-interpreting the scriptures ad absurdum, until they find them fitting, in a way that completely puts off the uninitiated.
I'd like to see a sincere - and successful - attempt at establishing a new religion which isn't just based on creating a lucrative sect for rich lunatics (a la scientology), but based on a traditional religion, only enhanced. Christianity II, with selected chapters of the bible, and plenty of extra material. 

[Afflict]

Someone is going to post this so let me save everyone the trouble  :

The meaning to life is 43

You wanna know why?

Cause Wikipedia says so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything

[evenwolf]

Someone already did.  And correctly.

[Gregjazz]

The meaning to life is 43

Are you sure about that?

[evenwolf]

By the way.    I found a christian who has ALL the answers.   This is why people become atheists.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIUBTZSmDsU