Emulators

[PsychicHeart]

Can anyone tell me some decent emulator sites? I got stacks of Roms from my mates, all for either Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, NES or SNES. Now i just need to download some decent emulators so i can play the damn things.
Cheers,
Blake

[Gilbert]

Well... I think it would be enough:

Zophar's Domain

Vintage Gaming Network

and our friend:

GOOGLE

[Phemar]

Are emulators even legal ... ?

[Paper Carnival]

I don't think discussion about roms is allowed in these forums... It's illegal, but I don't think the emulators are. You can go to www.emulator-zone.com and I'll suppose you'll delete the roms within 24 hours like you are supposed to do

[PsychicHeart]

yep. sweet. thanks for the links guys.

[Nacho]

Mmmm... I don't know if this "It's illegal, but if I were you I'd go to *link* " or "I don't know how to get this program, but if you PM me I could say a link... " stuff is correct... 

We usually do it, but we might put in a difficult situation to the hoster of the forums. I am not saying this directly to Guybrush, it is just a thought that came to my mind and I'd like to mention it, as a member, not as a moderator. I am not one and I don't preted to be, but I think this put us in danger and I think it's my duty  .

I know many of us did it... I passed a Corel Draw emulator via msn We all want to help, but I think we should do it via PM and leave the forums clean of illegal stuff (if posting links is illegal, I am not sure...) but it's better to prevent risks, IMHO.

[EldKatt]

As this website states, ROMs are always a copyright infringement, and it doesn't matter if you're using them for backup, or will delete them within 24 hours. Those ideas are just examples of the many urban legends regarding copyright laws that spread so swiftly. I don't know whether emulators as such are illegal (a quick skimming of the above-linked website doesn't reveal much) but it's quite possible. As Farlander says, I think we should avoid it here.

[Mr Jake]

I'm pretty sure emulators are legal, not all ROMs are of copyrighted games and emulators can be used for development purposes.

[EldKatt]

Copyright isn't about what you use the stuff for. Pirating Windows XP isn't legal just because you can use it to develop Windows XP applications. However, the Nintendo FAQ doesn't really state that emulators are illegal, instead saying that they're unauthorized (by Nintendo, that is) and that the ROMs are illegal.

Since they would probably be glad if they were able to state clearly that emulators are illegal and that's the end of that, I think we can assume that emulators per se are legal. This website supports that.

And as regards ROMs, I was of course talking about ROMs that are protected by some sort of copyright, which goes for any commercial game one might want to download.

[TheYak]

That Nintendo link, EldKatt, was a useful/interesting read but your assessment isn't correct, according to the site itself. Ã, It doesn't say that they're always copyright infringement. Ã, It says that it's always illegal to download a ROM (without being specific as to whether it's for backup, play, distribution, or whatnot). Ã, However, using a backup device to make an archival copy of your data is not illegal, provided you (the current license-holder) maintain possession of it and only use one instance of the program at a time. Ã, So, downloading Super Mario 3 would be illegal even if you own the cartridge (though the distinction between backup methods probably couldn't be proven in court), but using a backup device would not (unless that particular device was made specifically illegal). Ã, Playing the backup on your PC (even if you didn't play it on the NES) would be questionable as there's probably a distinction in the EULA concerning the hardware used for the software. Ã, 

Additionally, emulators typically aren't illegal but they often require copies of the BIOS ROM from the console. Ã, Copying and modifying or distributing this proprietary information is illegal. Ã, Using an SNES emulator to play a public domain, non-copyrighted ROM would be legitimate (provided that calls specific to the SNES BIOS aren't used). Ã, I don't understand all the confusion since the rules make common sense. Ã, You can safeguard what you bought but getting something for free isn't legal unless the company is offering it or the author has given it as freeware, public domain, etc. (The same goes for trialware used past its trial-length and so-called abandonware). Ã, Whether or not these things would be enforced, and whether or not I personally violate the above is another matter. Ã, 

Of course, since you've divulged the fact that you'd be using the emulator to play illegal software, anybody providing information could be considered an accomplice. Ã, Regardless, this particular request is answered (per usual) by a quick google search. www.snes9x.com appears right at the top.

[EldKatt]

You're right, YakSpit. I should've specified that I was talking about downloading ROMs, not ROMs as a concept.

The reason behind all the confusion is probably all the rumours that people gladly spread, particularly about copyright-related issues. Because of people's strong will to justify their theft of intellectual property, such pseudo-legal mumbo-jumbo abounds on ROM sites, and indeed any warez site. And I don't think anyone ever so slightly involved with music production can have missed the popular myth about how using a certain number of seconds of a copyrighted recording is perfectly alright. It's just such a convenient thing to believe that people put ethics and common sense on the shelf.

[magintz]

As far as I can recall emualtors are 100% legal, it's the games that you download that are illegal (some aren't copyrighted though so those are legal). If you think about somehting like scummvm... thats an emulator and it's legal.

As far as teh delete in 24 hours rule, or only for backup. Those are rumours, although I doubt anyone would find out if you did have a ROM on your PC.

I've found I've had real difficulties buying some games and find emulation and rom downloads the only way. But now somehting which should be cool:

The new Nintendo console (Nintendo Revolution / N5 or whatever it has been dubbed) will have the ability to download and play NES, SNES and N64 games for a small fee, and also play gamecube games, DVD's. If it can download games then I'm guessing it will have a built in hard-drive so no more memory cards.

[TheYak]

It's just such a convenient thing to believe that people put ethics and common sense on the shelf.

Agreed.  Too many arguments about whether or not something is legal stem from a more basic question of, "What can I get away with?" 

I've got a gray-market view of it, myself.  If I can't acquire the software through reasonable means (purchase from store, site, e-bay) then I see nothing wrong with downloading it, at least in the case of older games. Maybe that's just more self-justification but it's less questionable than somebody asking where they can D/L Doom 3.

There are some countries where software copyrights aren't recognized, right? I'm assuming a lot of the world has similar laws to the US concerning creative works, but Flukeblake could be from Tibet where the mountain monks play Mario Kart ROMs from dusk till dawn without worrying about kharmic retribution.

[auhsor]

Yeah I agree with the grey-market way of looking at things, and this is a similar argument to the abandonware scene. The thing is, as magintz said, soon enough on the Nintendo Revolution, you will be able to download the old games, so the grey-market view will not apply as the games will be available. I think thats a good thing that Nintendo are doing.

[Radiant]

Are emulators even legal ... ?

Interestingly enough, yes. Creating an emulator for most anything is perfectly legal, and there have been failed attempts to legally stop emulators. Some people even write fan roms for some systems. Of course, 99% of ordinary game roms are copyrighted and not distributable, and I'm not convinced that'd stop with the NinRev, because of potential tiny-print clauses.

[Kinoko]

The way I see it, when the price of games is reasonable and the games themselves aren't lacking, I'll buy them. I already buy games that excite my soul, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay $100 for f*cking Zoo Keeper. I download roms of games I can't buy anymore, or games I want to test (seriously, I'm NOT paying $100 on faith) or games that just aren't good enpugh to buy but I want a bit of a look at.

I don't give a crap if it's illegal. Who really cares? I support decent games and the rest can start picking up their game (whoa, pun! O_O) if they want my money.

If you don't want it mentioned on the forum, fair enough. I myself have tonnes of roms and emulators and if someone makes a really good game, neither having the rom nor a raging hell hound could stop me from buying it. I consider it as illegal as all those movies I had taped on VHS when I was a kid, or all those games I never paid a cent for when I had an amiga and lots of friends with amigas.

[Darth Mandarb]

Software/Video Games are and have been, for the most part, as rediculously over-priced as CDs.

I have over 80 gig of mp3.

Y'all can draw your own conclusions about my Emulator/ROM status

Although I must admit ... we found an old NES in Sara's parent's house (which was her's when she was a kid (the nintendo, not the house)) and I play the hell outta that sucker!  I got about 20 games from eBay and I still, on a daily basis, play  Dr. Mario.  BUT, on eBay you get the games for like .99 USD (around 4 dollars after shipping).  I'll gladly pay that price.

[Haddas]

I own a NES, and  have a SNES emulator. I play some games on it, like Somethingawfuls version of Final Fantasy, on the emulator. On the NES i play Super Mario bros 3, Track & Field, etc.

[RickJ]

Blake, you mat be interested in MAME.  It is my understanding that if you own the circuit board containing the ROM then it is perfectly legal to use it.   Anyway here is a releveant FAQ  from the MAME site.

http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#r06

[Snarky]

Because of people's strong will to justify their theft of intellectual property

"Intellectual property" is not property, it is a limited right granted by the government for a limited time. Concerted lobbying efforts by powerful vested interests are responsible for the notion that individuals or corporations "own" information as well as intellectual and creative products, and the term "intellectual property" is itself a blatant propaganda coup (comparable to "pro-choice" or "the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act").

In a time when media industries are working to extend the reach of copyright into perpetuity (recent proposed EU law), and eradicating fair use through legal and technological means, it is important that we resist their attempts to make us think in terms of "their property".

Hence, copyright violation is not theft.

That, of course, does not make it right.