Help with shading

Nightfable · Sat 09/04/2005 08:45:34

Well the title says it all... I've been working on this background for the past couple weeks and it's driving me INSANE!.. I meant to bring the room alive as well as keeping it sterile and futuristic enough to suite my game. But as you can see, the sun is setting and I just can't bring myself to draw the stupid shadows right.

Anyway... anyone have any opinion?

I give up!

*rips hair out of scalp*

Krazy · Sat 09/04/2005 09:02:08

BASS?

stuh505 · Sat 09/04/2005 09:21:25

First of all, stop ripping your hair out. You'll need that for one of the puzzles later.

I see you've made some changes since I saw it last time...I can't exactly remember how it looked before, but it looked great then, and it still looks great now.

You don't need to have a realistic level of shadows. If shadows aren't your style, then maybe don't stress it? Without shadows you get a more sterile look which can be neat. It's not as if it's going to look real anyway. Also I know that this is your first background so remember that whatever level of detail goes into this one ought to go into the rest of them to.

But, ok, if you want comments on the shadows...you have real nice ones on the walls, but the floors have none. Trace the lights out and see where they should go, I'm not going to explain the spots.

Haddas · Sat 09/04/2005 13:50:40

Very, very VERY quick edit. Light-sources wrong and everything :

.

(Had to resize for the hosting o accpt it

)

RyRayer · Sat 09/04/2005 14:17:27

Nothing special, but at least I tried. $:-\$

DanClarke · Sat 09/04/2005 14:38:22

quick rough edit, id suggest changing all the plants from a green to an orangey/brown colour, as their colour isnt right considering the lighting. I just had a quick paint over, tried to make it all look a bit more dynamic, as if the lightsource was actually a part of the room. Mice scene though and it should take much to have it improved.

Khris · Sat 09/04/2005 15:31:12

Here's my version:

Your background is great, but the perspective of the floor tiles is quite off.

RyRayer · Sat 09/04/2005 16:03:35

Khrismuc, edges of those shadows are too sharp and straight.

Khris · Sat 09/04/2005 16:25:56

I could've blurred them a bit, true.
But I wanted to provide a basic lighting sketch rather than 'finish' the picture.

Too straight? I don't think so: uberstraight

Stefano · Sat 09/04/2005 16:27:53

DanClarcke,
Your edit is really good. Of course Coffe Lady would have to apply it more carefully into the original, but I would go for this idea. The only thing I would do is darken the holes (windows?) in the right wall.

DanClarke · Sat 09/04/2005 16:38:16

Quote from: Stefano on Sat 09/04/2005 16:27:53
DanClarcke,
Your edit is really good. Of course Coffe Lady would have to apply it more carefully into the original, but I would go for this idea. The only thing I would do is darken the holes (windows?) in the right wall.

thanks, as for a guide to shadow legth, id say khrismuc's edit is a better one to follow, as given that the sun is very low, the shadows within the room would be very long.

Nightfable · Sat 09/04/2005 20:06:02

Thanks all for the great advice and the extra time you've put into editing the picture! I've actually started working on my second background and will come back to this one and add changes as I go (I can't stay stuck on one background forever or else I will never complete the game). But with your help I have now a better idea on constructing the shadows and highlights more properly.

On another note, I've taken an animation course a few years back and I've scanned these pages that might come to you for help when you animate your characters and portraits.

thanks!Ã,Â

DanClarke · Sat 09/04/2005 20:47:35

Cheers, i think i have the book theyre from (animators survival kit). Does anybody else see the resembelance in the walk and jump animations to the simon the sorcerer animations? Theyre almost identical!

Phemar · Sat 09/04/2005 20:55:18

Quote from: khrismuc on Sat 09/04/2005 16:25:56
Too straight? I don't think so: uberstraight

Fancy having a forest next to a beach.

stuh505 · Sun 10/04/2005 23:47:06

Cool, thanks for those animation scans

Al_Ninio · Mon 11/04/2005 00:02:20

The scans are from Preston Blair's "Cartoon Animation" book.
The book was available for free on www.freetoon.com, but the website appears to be closed now.

Andail · Mon 11/04/2005 11:52:46

I'm not entirerly pleased with any of the edits, actually, as the particular bastard I am

The shading in Haddas' and especially Krishmuc's versions are way too sharp and distinct. They don't suit the style, and they certainly don't fit into adventure games, which generally lack sprite/character cast shadows.
Backgrounds for adventure games should preferably be drawn without too distinct light sources, or at least very subtle and blurred shading, or they will clash with the characters (or as a final option at least stay out of walkable areas).

Also they are not as realistic as Krishmuc claims; long sharp shadows are only rendered by a direct lightsource, and since the sunset takes place at the horizon, the floor and furniture of the room can hardly be hit by the sunrays in that manner.

Dan's version has a nice classic-painting feeling to it, but the original background had a great BASS-atmosphere which was more or less ruined in Dan's paintover.
The BASS-style seldom lets one single lightsource dominate the entire picture; each part of background is more or less equally saturated/contrasted, even though some areas are shaded. This is more harmonic when serving as the background for a game.
Example:

I don't claim to know a better solution, I'm just ranting

Khris · Mon 11/04/2005 15:13:12

Quote from: Andail on Mon 11/04/2005 11:52:46
Backgrounds for adventure games should preferably be drawn without too distinct light sources, or at least very subtle and blurred shading, or they will clash with the characters (or as a final option at least stay out of walkable areas).

Seconded, but Coffee Lady has aked for it, so I gave it a try.

Now look at this:

As I already said, I didn't blur them cause I was too lazy, but the general shape seems to quite accurate.
Of course the shadows clash with the floor, but, as I also already mentioned, the floor's perspective is waaay off.

Andail · Mon 11/04/2005 20:26:51

Hm, what I partly meant was that since the sun is positioned at the horizon, seemingly below the apartment in the foreground, I don't see how its floor, or furniture, can be hit by the sunrays like that.

The new picture which you - superfluously- displayed as further evidence features - just like the previous one - a beach. The surface of a beach can be hit by the rays of a setting sun thanks to its being at a level with the sun.

Also I don't really get what you mean by

Quote
Of course the shadows clash with the floor, but, as I also already mentioned, the floor's perspective is waaay off.

Are you suggesting that because the shadows and the tiles don't align, the floor's perspective is incorrect? That the lines in the floor should point towards the lightsource?

Ah well, enough about that, the important thing is that it simply looks better, and suits adventuregames better with less distinct shadows.

Snarky · Tue 12/04/2005 00:43:56

Quote from: Andail on Mon 11/04/2005 20:26:51
Hm, what I partly meant was that since the sun is positioned at the horizon, seemingly below the apartment in the foreground, I don't see how its floor, or furniture, can be hit by the sunrays like that.

The new picture which you - superfluously- displayed as further evidence features - just like the previous one - a beach. The surface of a beach can be hit by the rays of a setting sun thanks to its being at a level with the sun.

It doesn't matter if you're at sea level or in an apartment. If the sun is above the horizon, it's above you and therefore shining down. Do you ever look down on the horizon? Because of the scale of the Earth, you'd have to be pretty high up (like on a plane) before the horizon is actually below you and you can see the sun lower than you are.