3D Backgrounds

Cybernet_Surfer · Sun 15/01/2006 20:15:05

I wanted some opinions on the way I make backgrounds. I use a graphics program called Bryce 5. With it I can creat 3D environments and then use these as my backgrounds. I wanted to know what your thoughts on this is. Is it a good idea? I'll get some of my pictures on line and let you take a look at them.

JRock · Sun 15/01/2006 20:17:45

Okay. Maybe we'll let you know when we can see your work.

Cybernet_Surfer · Sun 15/01/2006 20:22:03

Here. This web sight will let you download my title screen. The actual worlds will not look quite the same but it gives you a feel for what it will look like.

http://209.245.59.40/Gimme/85073263/1846692070/84609869/2951131D-D4B6-417C-A995-B267413EA1C3/0.633168/2/Title2.bmp

Mozesh · Sun 15/01/2006 20:22:50

Bryce 5 is a very good background producing program, or atleast that's what I've been told.
It would indeed really help if you'd post some of your work, this is the critics lounge after all.
EDIT:
I was too late and the link gives an error.

Cybernet_Surfer · Sun 15/01/2006 20:25:37

It gives and error? Ok. I'm going to try something else. I should have it available soon.

Edit:

I was trying to get it up on a Geocities sight. But it's not working right now. Does anyone have any ideas how I can get it on here?

MarVelo · Sun 15/01/2006 20:46:28

www.imageschack.us

UPLOAD

Cybernet_Surfer · Sun 15/01/2006 21:23:26

This link should take you to my picture. I thank taffytom for helping me with this.

http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=title20my.png

ScottDoom · Sun 15/01/2006 22:11:59

Alright, you're not really showing off much in that "background." There's green "grass" and a blue "sky" but that could easily be done in MS Paint. Try showing us a background with objects and architecture in it.

vict0r · Sun 15/01/2006 22:23:26

Well... its an egg on a hill... Give us a description of what it really is

I would recommend you to add some more detail to it.

Just resized it so people dont have to press the link everytime they check out the post.

And what's the yellow thingy?

Cybernet_Surfer · Sun 15/01/2006 23:32:30

The yellow thing is the characters toung. Yes, the title was a quickly put together picture that I just did for my game. But I can do much more with it. Here is a picture of a temple I put together. It is also not the best I can do. But a very nice picture is being rendered right now.

Edit:

Here's that other picture that I rendered. It isn't usable for making a game really. But it gives a good overview of what Bryce can do. The sky feautres are very good.

RocketGirl · Mon 16/01/2006 00:36:24

Personally, I believe in 3D backgrounds. I posted this for the BG blitz this month:

They're not used a lot by AGSers, I've noticed, but I like 'em a lot. I say go with it.
But, at the same time, I think you need some help with technique. You backgrounds are bit...low-poly, and not as well-textured as they could be.
But while I'm familiar with Bryce as being something that I know exists, I've never used it myself; I'm a 3D Studio MAXer. So while I could give advice, it might not help much as we'd have to do a lot of translating jargon as no two 3D packages can quite agree on terminology.

Still, I will say this--and it applies to all artwork, not just 3D: photo-reference is your friend. Try to make a real-world object, or even just a design that is extrapolated from similar real-world objects, and do it all from memory, in your head, and you will most likely fail. Miserably. Little details escape us, or go fuzzy in our memories, or have the wrong dimensions, or just look...off in some indefinable way.
With photo-reference, something to look at and work from, even if you're modifying it greatly to fit your needs, can really take whatever you make to the next level. Even better is a true physical object you can hold in your hands or walk around, shine a light on to see how it reacts.
This is invaluable to the 3D modeler's work, believe me. It seems so simple, maybe even unnecesary, but trust me...do it anyway.

I will also say that perspective is a real issue with 3D backgrounds. The door in the lower left of the screenie I posted? It's actually at about waist-height for the character in the 3D scene. Of course, I could scale the character instead--AGS has some great scaling tools/methods--but it's something to be aware of.

Cybernet_Surfer · Mon 16/01/2006 02:10:01

Wow. That's incredible. I think you are right with the photo reference thing. It is a good idea. Though most of my sceans are so outlandish it's unlikely I can find a comparison anywhere on Earth. Still I will give it a try. Bryce is mostly a scean editor and perhapse not the greatest program to use for this sort of thing. But it's all I have at my disposal. I'm sure that if I work hard enought I can make good sceans for my games.

RocketGirl · Mon 16/01/2006 07:06:13

Even something outlandish and otherworldly usually has an Earthly equivalent, or even just a distant cousin. Beleive me, it helps.

CaptainBinky · Mon 16/01/2006 14:44:15

Hello chaps,

One of the things I used to do when I first started out with 3D packages was to be a bit lurid with my colours. I mean, that the grass used to be a bit on the green side, and the sky tended to be a bit on the blue side. As soon as you start toning down your colours (i.e. using yellowier greens desaturated a bit, and using more desaturated blues for the sky) you'll find everything starts looking a bit more real.

Using Bryce is an interesting idea, but bear in mind that *any* package of that ilk (whereby a lot of the work is done for you) is going to produce images that are obviously done in that program.

If you really want to get into 3D for backgrounds, then I would seriously consider learning a package like 3DS Max as it will allow you to develop your own style rather than be forced into the style inherent in the software. If you want to create similar landscapes as Bryce within Max, then you can paint a height map and then displace a plane by that map. You can then texture and paint your mesh as you like and have a lot more control over the lighting.

If you would like any information on using Max to create landscapes, then I'd be happy to help.

Cybernet_Surfer · Mon 16/01/2006 15:48:45

Hmm. I've been hearing a lot about 3DS Max. I'll look and see if there is a trial download for it. Also, I have a 3D program called Blender. I'm not very skilled with it and haven't used it much because I like the user interface with Bryce. But I may look into using this program more instead of Bryce. Before I get 3DS Max I'd like to know if anyone else knows about Blender.

CaptainBinky · Mon 16/01/2006 17:23:43

I have played with a version of Blender a while back, so I'm not too sure of it's current features. I also found it quite difficult to work with, buit then since I've been using Max for the past 6 or 7 years, then this could just as easily be me being used to a certain way of working as the software itself being unfriendly.

I believe that a 30-day trial version of Max exists, so it's probably a good idea to get hold of both and see which you find more suitable.

RocketGirl · Mon 16/01/2006 17:47:59

And though it's difficult to tutor people online about using MAX, I love to do it. Possibly because there are hardly any MAXers where I live so I get to talk shop so rarely.

Regardless, happy to help any time.

Mordalles · Mon 16/01/2006 19:34:46

well, ure off to a good start, cybernet_surfer.

the key to goodlooking backgrounds in 3d, is detail. even though rocketgirl's bg looks nice, it looks kinda empty. everything seems too perfect. add as much stuff as you can. if you for instance build a fence, rather than just using one long box, divide it up into lots of small planks and put them together. it makes huge difference. also, try messing around with the textures. it would be nice to see stains on the walls, and maybe cracks and stuf like these. it all makes the bgs so much richer. another important thing is lighting. lighting i think, is actually more important than colours to get that realism effect, like captainblinky suggests.

but then, im a newbie myself. so, it might just be talking rubbish.

Cybernet_Surfer · Mon 16/01/2006 22:36:40

Well, even though it looks kind of empty. It's still much better then mine are. It believe it is possible to use Bryce to recreate those kinds of environments. But it will take a bit of work. While I'm getting Bryce to do that, I'm also working on learning how to use Blender. It may be able to help me get much better at creating environments. Thanks for all your help.