A character to criticise...

Nacho · Sat 17/01/2004 19:26:46

Hello AGS fellows... I am making the previous art for an uncoming (hopefully) game, and IÂ´ve been making some costume tests...

This is... Arizona Scott? Well, he is the pupil of a famous archeology teacher, and he will have to deal with the nazis while this teacher is ill...

Can you help me to decide? The australian hat makes him look to old, and he has to seem quite young, maybe 20-25. I donÂ´t like very much the dodgers jacket, as it seems quite dumb to see a person with a jacket like this in an excavation in Egypt. What do you think of the Yankees cup? IÂ´ve been told that the Yankees is not a very loved in the rest of the US... What can I do?

Anyway, if you like to retouch it, trying to make him seem younger, feel free to do it!

Edit: If you wanna play, download the image and make a zoom on it... who is he?

Willis?

Archangel (aka SoupDragon) · Sat 17/01/2004 19:33:01

Wowowow that's some goood stuff. The only thing is, he looks about 30, due to the lack of hair, square jaw, huge neck and hands and general bouncer-look. I'd stay with the fedora (the blue stuff looks out of place), but modify the aforementioned features a little.

HillBilly · Sat 17/01/2004 19:35:39

well... he seem a bit indiana jones/full throttle. If he's a student, maybe you should remove the belt and boots, give him more sporty shoes, and make the pants blue with the dodger jacket. Short brief: I think his a little too brown(Not a racist statment).

Darth Mandarb · Sat 17/01/2004 19:59:38

I like the drawing ...

I think if you're gonna make him Dr. Jone's student you should keep him 'in period' (the early parts of the 20th century) and I don't think the ball-caps were 'in' back then

I did this really really quickly.

* I made his neck thinner and generally made him less bulky.
* I rounded his chin just slightly.
* I gave him more of young-guy-of-the-30's40's-outfit rather than the bomber jacket look.

Note: I think his shoulders could slim down some still (but I think it looks cool and gives him character).

But definately keep the fedora!

Darth

n3tgraph · Sat 17/01/2004 20:35:35

Hey Farly, Great Picture

I think he looks a little to brawn to be a youngster
anyway, I like this hat

Erwin_Br · Sat 17/01/2004 22:43:50

Hmmmm, how about nothing on his head? I also tried to make him look younger with some small details, like blue eyes.

--Erwin

n3tgraph · Sat 17/01/2004 22:52:03

hahaha

just a little joke:
"and he will have to deal with the nazis while this teacher is ill..."

he kinda looks like the perfect nazi himself now

Yellow Hair, blue eyes, tall, strong

Hueij · Sat 17/01/2004 23:09:07

If he is a student of a famous archeologist chances are it's his first time in the field. So he would be wearing a white suit with matching Fedora

Privateer Puddin' · Sat 17/01/2004 23:12:17

sorry to be an ass

loominous · Sat 17/01/2004 23:49:28

Some modifications:

x2

no zoom

Will add comments later, main thing was to feminise face, that is give it more round shapes, fuller lips n so on.

Edit: Updated the pic with a a black/brown haired man that goes better with the dark eyebrows.

Nacho · Sun 18/01/2004 00:14:42

Quote from: Privateer Puddin' on Sat 17/01/2004 23:12:17
sorry to be an ass

YOu AsS!!!1 ^_^

No probs... ItÂ´s true that the person who designed Ben and me were probably aiming for the same... an ultra-typical and super-stereotypical classic adventurer character... It is normal that the pose and most of the things coincide.

Here you have the original bodytest pic of Arizona... As you can see, the heroic pose is almost the same again.

I canÂ´t deny anyway an undeniable reference from Ben...

Anyway, donÂ´t worry for being an ass, everyone who I asked for in the #AGS channel (5 or 6 people) saw the same coincidence, if you are an ass, sum to that that youÂ´re not even an ORIGINAL ass...

IÂ´ve been thinking in many of your entries, most of them are cool (Jan, what is that... that??? hat???) IÂ´ve been thinking in putting him jeans, but then we have... Murdock! I want to keep the bomber because he is supposed to be an amateur pilot, and this is important for the plot.

IÂ´ve been thinking also in the "nothing covers his head" option... but then we have "Broken Sword" and, as n3t said, a very "Arian" guy... ThatÂ´s a problem. The Yankees cup gives him the american touch I need, IMHO... BTW, thanks in the attempt to make him younger, I think weÂ´re getting close to some kind of success here...

Thanks for all the entries, specially loominous, whose posts are self explanatory, and a great help, vote for him to win a FOREGO!

Privateer Puddin' · Sun 18/01/2004 08:53:16

the reason for the pic was the shading, mainly on the arm and boots

Nacho · Sun 18/01/2004 11:05:20

which shadow??? Which boots??? LOOK!!! A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!!1!

plasticman · Sun 18/01/2004 13:37:55

talk about a rip-off.
using an existing character for reference is not the same thing than literally copying it.
sorry, but don't expect me to give c&c on a work that is not yours.

Nacho · Sun 18/01/2004 13:49:16

As you can see, the pencil model was made, there is also another closeup pencil squtch for the face, and only the sadows have been used as a reference. Feel free not to criticise, but posting that is bashing.

HillBilly · Sun 18/01/2004 13:53:46

Yeah, Farlander made this, he only got a little "Inspiration" from the full throttle guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Nacho · Sun 18/01/2004 14:00:43

ThatÂ´s not the problem HillBilly... I didn t posted this to be healed, "Hey Farlander, your Arizona Scott rules!!!1"

I posted specifically that anyone who feels that can be able to improve it could download it and give a try. Plastic, You do think he is too Ben? Well, maybe IÂ´ve been this last two days thinking the same and hoping that if I post it, someone can think "Hey, IÂ´ll try to help this guy making an edit and trying to make it less Ben" What IÂ´m sure is that I didnÂ´t posted for receiving some... ItÂ´s a ripp...

If I donÂ´t like something I just donÂ´t post, I donÂ´t post even if what I see likes me so much that I couldnÂ´t help to improve. What I do not do is to post saying :" Hey! that sucks"

Thanks for nothing, man.

plasticman · Sun 18/01/2004 14:44:17

I didn't say it sucked.
In fact, my first thought when i saw your sprite was that i liked the shading. but the problem is that you didn't even try to imitate the shading used in full throttle, you just made an almost-perfect copy. hell, even the colors of the jacket are exactly the same.
I don't have a problem with the fact that you character looks like Ben, i have a problem with the fact that you copied graphics from an existing character.
It's your choice to do that, but i'm just letting you know that some people like me can have a problem with this proceeding.

if you still want criticism : the head is not properly centered on the shoulders. the hand is too round and lacks shading. the pixel-size is not consistent (look at the boots). the jacket lapel(sp?) looks flat. other than that, i'm not sure what is original work and what is just copied, so i don't have much to add.

oh, and believe it or not, i don't visit this forum in hope of finding someone to bash. if i don't like something, i don't post "hey! that sucks", i try to give suggestions.
but this time it wasn't a matter of liking or not.

Nacho · Sun 18/01/2004 15:10:13

ThatÂ´s better... I am working in it, believe or not.

P.S. Download both images, the colors on ScottÂ´s Jacket Arizona are not the same as in Ben, IÂ´ve copied them from an original WWII bomber. Thaks to you I see that theyÂ´re actually too similar to BenÂ´s. Thank you for SOMETHING, now.

P.S. And yeah! The lower part of the painting need more detailing, I wanted boots to differenciate him from Indy (As you can see in the sketch) but now I think I am going to put him some kind of "Converse" canvass boots... thatÂ´s why itÂ´s unfinished.

Pessi · Sun 18/01/2004 15:13:34

I think Plasticman has a point. Nonetheless, I think it's just because of a understandable misunderstanding.

I think Farlander should've made it more clear that he used Ben as reference and merely wants to get rid of that look and make it more original. I don't think there's anything wrong with copying as a means to learn. It's just that you need to make it very clear so no one will think you're trying to take credit for someone else's work. I once made some DOTT background copies and I got great feedback - mostly because it was obvious that they were copies. It worked as a great exercise and motivator for me.

As far as the character goes, I really like the pants. I think their shape is way better than the original's. There's a hint of Indiana Jones there but still. I think what you should change to make it look less like Ben are the proportions. Not completely, but make him a bit skinnier. I think the new hands by Loominous, for example, are great. They make a significant change without actually changing the proportions. Not that you couldn't change them as well but it would be much work.

Another thing is the color theme. Even if you should keep the same clothes, changing their color and details would make him look a lot different, I reckon. I think making the outlines a bit less Full Throttleish (thinner) would also help in making him look different.