King's Quest III+ (call for testers)

[fluxmaster]

Okay, another bug:Ã,  I'm playing àŸ2 and have started from the beginning.Ã,  The wizard (I can't remember how to spell his name, that's why I keep saying "the wizard") tells Alexander to clean his (the wizard's) bedroom, so Alexander proceeds to the wizard's bedroom.Ã,  Since there is no broom there to click on, I first try clicking on the rug, but I get a message that the rug is too heavy to move.Ã,  Then I click on the chamberpot.Ã,  Alexander first empties the chamberpot, then makes the bed, then empties the chamberpot a second time.Ã,  Now I know that, with American toilets, it is often necessary to flush twice because toilet manuacturers are forbidden by law to make the reservoirs large enough (in order to conserve water), but I didn't think that this problem existed with chamber pots.Ã,  But, after the second flush, the game terminates with the following error message:

An error has occured. . . . (same as before)

(Room 11 script line 258)
Error: EndCutscene: not in a cutscene

Since the game has terminated, I am unable to produce a logfile.

(This kindda reminds me of the scene in LSL1 where Larry flushes the toilet, and . . . )

[lightman]

(Room 11 script line 258)
Error: EndCutscene: not in a cutscene

I get the same error.

Is it just me or is the wizard a lot more aggressive than in the original?

Anyway, I like playing KQ3 with a mouse interface. Cool.

[dreammaster]

Day 4 bug reports. I'm starting to have trouble finding new bugs, which is a good sign. I guess I'll have to wait for beta 3, and see if it fixes all the errors I've already reported.Ã,  8) And hopefully some more of the plot in this excellent remake implemented.

Bugs
----
* If you feed the chickens, and then click on the gate, you will now open the gate from the outside (except you still go "through" the fence). Also, doing so seems to screw up the gate opening logic, as if you now click on the gate you'll walk through the gate, open it, and then walk back into the pen!
* When in the chicken pen, you can click on the front door and walk through both the gate and part of the wall
* On the first day, just after I finish dusting the study, Manannan pops in. But then, nothing.. he just stands there. He doesn't tell me anything. I can't dust again, so I only have the option of leaving the room, and being punished by Manannan.
* Manannan's bedroom cupboard opens when you click on it, irrespective of where you are in the bedroom
* Experimenting with the spellbook, I clicked the mouth icon on a spell to start it. But then there's no way to stop trying to make the spell or close the spellbook short of using the AGS Alt-X sequence
* There's no use description for the toad spittle
* I now seriously think that finishing night 2 is a bug - I do everything I can in the lab now - get the toad spittle, the empty bottle, and look through the spell book. But returning to bed, it keeps waking me up saying "I should figure out a way to open the trapdoor". I already have! Testing further, it seems that trying to sleep is what triggers the cat to appear, and teleporting somewhere else within the house and sleepng again day 2 is finished. So the question is how to deal with the cat.. objects like the knife won't work (and should, BTW, have a response), and currently the use icon doesn't do anything, nor does leaving the room multiple times get rid of it. I'm at a loss..
* When I say day 2 is finished, I mean sleeping gives me the daytime showing in the window. But when I leave the room, I'm back to nighttime again. And Mannanan accosts me and forces me to sleep. I'm not sure whether this is a side effect of the teleporting away from the cat, but I don't think so
* In room 74 at 237, 164 if I walk west I suddenly get moved to the screen to the south
* If I swim out far enough, I see a seehorse with a saddle (perhaps a KQ2+ easter egg). I click the hand onÃ,  it, and as I get near it disappears, but it still complete the use sequence, with a "touch" error
* When Alexander gets eaten by a shark, after his disappearance and the shark leaves, he appears again, swimming.
* In room 94, you can't leave the screen to east when you're in the river. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to
* Clipping problem - in room 84, you can see water movement through the right-hand bird

Nitpicks
--------
* Mouse wheel support in the save/load dialog would be useful, particularly when we have many savegames
* Most rocks across the countryside don't have a use description. It would be natural for a player to be trying them since one of the spells require it

PS: If someone figures out a legitimate way to get past the cat on night 2, please, let me know

[fluxmaster]

Bug report:

V2 room 63 [30,156]: Clicking mushroom on tree says can't chop tree down with knife

V2 room 84 [135,160]: Name of last saved game deleted is inadvertantly displayed



(actually, this is the name of the last saved game that I tried to delete; another saved game was deleted instead.)

V2 room 11 [66,140]: When I try to delete a saved game, it always deletes the most recently saved game, not the one that I selected.Ã,  This happens regardless of whether I selected the saved game with the keyboard or the mouse.Ã,  When I try to delete multiple saved games, only the first is deleted.Ã,  This is particularly frustrating because I like to save the game every few minutes, or sometimes more often, but when I do that I run out of saved games and cannot delete the older ones.

V2 room 64 [166,127]: When I click on the door, Alexander moves into another position before opening the door.Ã,  This would be nitpicking if he only moved out of the way a little, but I think that he moves too far out of position.

V2 room 47 [172,132]: Alexander is not killed when he doesn't pay for the fish oil.Ã,  This was probably intended and so is not a bug, but I expected that Alexander would have to pay for what he takes.

A general observation is that, as in the original, there are times when Alexander must wait around with nothing to do.Ã,  Is this correct, or when Alexander is waiting around is there something that he is supposed to be doing but I've just missed it?Ã,  If waiting is required, there should be some way to bypass the waiting.Ã,  In this game, does time pass by the clock or by screen changes?Ã,  In QFG1, you could make time advance by moving back and forth between screens.Ã,  In later QFG games I think there was a feature where you could wait a certain number of minutes.Ã,  If waiting is required in this game, it would be nice to have a feature where you could wait until the next significant event.Ã,  Or is waiting not required in this game, in which case I'm just missing what I'm supposed to be doing?

[dreammaster]

Hiya Fluxmaster, I'd like to make two comments about your last bug report:

Firstly, with regards to the shopkeeper, he's afraid of Manannan. In fact, one of the descriptions (I think it's the look one) says to the effect "He's never asked for payment since Manannan made it clear that he wouldn't pay for goods". As his lackey, this applies to you. That's why he's so subservient if you try talking to him.

The second point is with regards to time. This remake seems geared more to completion of plot points than time. I actually prefer it this way. It means you can't accidentally forget to do something and then complain later on (the whole issue of dead-ends in games). Like for instance on day 2.. you can't finish the day until after you've bought the fish oil like Manannan tells you to.

Admittantly, there could always be the problem of figuring out what you're supposed to be doing, but that's where subtle writing and handling of the plot comes in.

PS: This is directed to Radiant, but Fluxmaster mentioning the mushroom on a tree made me think of it, could you add a Monty Python reference if you try to click the fish on a tree? Something like "What are you trying to do? Cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring?". That what would be awesome. 

[Radiant]

Hi there,

thanks for the bug reports! I must say you're very thorough. That's good!
Now uploaded is beta-3. This fixes all bugs I've seen since I've last read this message board, which is indicated by my last post above and the two posts directly underneath.

The flask in the top of the tree is, indeed, a puzzle. So is the cat. Both are solvable as of beta-3.

Spoiler

The cat doesn't like water. Is there water somewhere in the lab?

[close]

By the way the game is not supposed to have dead ends. It is of course possible that there are some but in that case they are bugs. I'm trying to avoid situations like in the original where you couldn't defeat the dragon if you had wasted the storm potion somewhere earlier, or left it under your bed, or didn't make it in the first place.

Due to the way AGS handles saved games (e.g. a direct memory dump), they are almost never compatible across versions. This is also why sending me saved games to demonstrate errors is not particularly useful. You can use the teleport cheat to help yourself. If people want more cheats I'll consider them. But one of the main points of beta-testing is restarting a lot and seeing what happens.

I've been unable to reproduce the errors when you
- click the fish on the dog (or on Gwydion)
- click hand on empty bottle
- look at the bears' drawers
- look at the empty bottle
In spite of the message you got, the problem is probably in my scripting. It seems that I had already fixed them before I got your message, could you please check if they still occur on your system?

mousewheel support is on my to-do list.

Lightman -> somewhat, yes he does order you around a lot more, in the original it was rather easy to defeat him after doing one chore, since he leaves on a journey for the next half-hour of game time or so, and like KQ2 the game can be solved within that time.

Dreammaster -> ah, more bugs, thanks. The spellbook isn't functional yet, I'll let you know when it is. Funny that you should mention the herring quote, because I think it's already there

Fluxmaster -> As Dreammaster states, you don't have to pay in the store. I'll make that more clear in the future. Also there's not supposed to be any waiting in the game,  the plot advancements simply depend on your actions. Okay, there are a few spots where you have to wait until the wizard shows up to tell you what to do next, but 1) this should only take 20 seconds or so, and 2) you can always go and find him, his location is not random.
If at any point it isn't clear what you're supposed to do to advance the plot, let me know.
Oh, the exception is that when the plot point is doing a chore, if you don't do the chore within four minutes or so, Manannan will show up and punish you and advance the plot anyway.

In general, the game needs a LOT more use-object-on-hotspot responses. If you think a particular combination makes sense, or gives room for a cool quote, let me know please.

Thanks *masters!

[dreammaster]

Congratulations on the very prompt release of the third beta, Radiant. Just when I was wondering if it was worth starting again from scratch to look for more bugs, you come out with beta 3.Ã, 

Below are bugs I've found in beta 3 tonight:

Bugs
----
* You now start with a cinannon stick. Is this intended? Previously, I had to go down to the shop to get one
* Clicking on Restart now gives Global script 1501; Error: ResetRoom: cannot reset current room
* Manannan still has a tendancy to appear and then do nothing. I'm presuming he should disappear again after a brief period
* Going outside at night, I notice that there's now a chicken outside (previously they disappeared at night). But, for example, clicking on the corn says there's no point when the chickens are inside the coop.
* When the dream sequence starts on Night 1, you get an error "Error seeking entry! (please note room number 19, and from where exactly you entered it"
* When you're forced to sleep at the end of night 2, you get the same error again, only this time it's "room 29"
* At daybreak on day 2, you can enter Manannan's bedroom, and with him right there ordering you to get out, you can click on the broken glass to initiate the cleanup sequence, with slightly screwed up results eg. Manannan disappears from the bedroom, and whilst the cleanup sequence finishes, the glass fragments remain; you can click on them again, which causes a fatal error this time
* The chamber pot error that others have reported is still present
* I think that it's poor planning that you have to sleep on night 2 to trigger the cat appearing. It means that it erraneously tells you, when it wakes you up, that you still haven't figured out a way to open the trapdoor, even if you've already found a way
* Also related to night 2 sleeping, if you go to the lab before sleeping, there's always the possibility that you'll have already gotten the item you need to get the past the cat and have hidden it under the bed (confidentally expecting the night to end). Thus, if you go back to the lab to see if there's anything you missed, you'll be in a dead end situation since you no longer have it on you. A better solution overall would be, IMHO, to also trigger the cat appearance when the player picks up the item, thus giving the option of skipping the first sleep altogether. And if you go to sleep having visited the lab, but not having got the item, you could give an alternate wake up message, such as "You wake up with the feeling that there's still more you could do in the lab".
* Given the explicit warnings about being seen with the key, I thought I had to sneak it back to the top of Manannan's closet before he noticed it was missing. But there's currently no response dialog for that action. I mean, given the fact that it only appears at night-time (witnessed by the fact that it's not there on day 3 if you didn't pick up the previous night), you'd think the wizard is actively using it to open his own safe. Which would make it sensible to allow the player to replace it as soon as he can on day 3. Likewise for trying to replace it at night time
* Leaving the 3 bears house produces another "error seeking entry" error
* I can't even get into the treehouse now; when I reach the screen at the top of the rope ladder I get a fatal error: Room 46 script line 32; Error: MoveCharacter: character not in current room
* There are still problems with swimming and then getting out of the water. In beta 3, you start walking in place once you're out of the water, and when moving between rooms you briefly flicker to a swimming animation.

Nitpicks
--------
* When Manannan is sleeping in his bed, there's a brief flash of yellow that keeps happening. I wonder if this is a graphic glitch or it's meant to indicate another item?
* Most of the inventory items still don't have a use response. Maybe a simple default response like "You can't use it directly"
* I notice that scrolling arows have been added to the save/load dialogs. Could you add a repetitive scrolling if the user holds the mouse down on one of them?


PS: The previous fatal AGS errors no longer occur. Kudos. Also, I already managed to figure out the cat puzzle solution on my own. Kudos again for a really challenging puzzle (although there is the dead-end problem I mention in bugs). Given the treehouse error, I guess I'll wait for beta 4 to solve getting the flask.Ã,  Ã, :'(

[fluxmaster]

Bug report (version 3):

Previoiusly reported bugs not fixed:Ã,  Chamberpot emptied twice, clicking mushroom on tree, saved game name inadvertantly displayed.

Newly discovered bugs:

V3 room 22 [236,136]: I get the following message while dreaming:



I can't remember exactly what I did to get that message, but I think I clicked on something (inventory, perhaps) or struck a key.

V3 room 22 [235,134]: While in the inventory screen, clicking on the milk with either the hand icon or the eye icon yields a message about cinnamon sticks.

V3 room 47 [172,132]: Error: No message for "Look at milk" (please log me.)Ã,  Ditto for "Touch fish oil".

Another thing is that, when I wake up on the second day, the wizard orders me to make breakfast, but there isn't enough time to hide the orb under the bed, save the game (yes, I do like to save often!) and then get to the kitchen to make breakfast for the wizard before the wizard punishes Alexander for not making breakfast.Ã,  I would at least like to be able to complete the assigned task without being punished.

There are also times when Alexander encounters the wizard, the wizard has nothing to say to him, yet, when Alexander leaves the screen, the wizard punishes him for leaving his presence.Ã,  I assume that this is intended.

Regarding waiting, I'm glad that this game is event-based rather than time-based, since I can't stand waiting around for something to happen.

Okay, now here is something which I am not sure whether it is a bug or a puzzle that I'm unable to solve, but since other people have been able to get past this point, then it must be passable.Ã,  I have gotten the fish oil from the store, but I am unable to give it to the wizard.Ã,  When I try to give it to him, I get a message, "Keep your fish oil to yourself."Ã,  Then the wizard punishes Alexander for failing to get the fish oil.Ã,  Previously, whenever the wizard gave Alexander a task to accomplish, the wizard would acknowledge the completion of the task as soon as he encountered Alexander.

So at this point I don't know whether there's something else that I must do before giving the fish oil to the wizard.Ã,  I thought that perhaps the reason was that I teleported back to the house from outside the store, so I tried walking back to the path that leads up the mountain, but every time I got robbed by the bandits.Ã,  I tried going to the tree where, in the original version, I could recover my stuff, but there is no rope to pull.Ã,  The bears aren't home, there's nobody in the tavern, so there doesn't seem to be anything else to do in town just yet.Ã,  I tried pouring the fish oil into a cup, placing it on the table or on the wizards desk, but nothing works.

So my question is, is there another puzzle that I must solve before I can give the fish oil to the wizard?Ã,  If not, is there something else that is preventing the wizard from acknowledging that I have fetched the fish oil?Ã,  Was this intended, or is there some non-obvious thing that I have to do that is a design flaw that should be fixed?

[deltamatrix]

I'd like to withdraw my comment about this game not being KQIII+. IT IS!

Everything in the game has greater depth. I think this new structure is pretty good even though it ain't flexible like in the original but it seems easier and more interesting somehow.

Saying that, this leads to another possible advantage, KQ2VGA completely destroyed the value of KQ2.
I don't think this will as many may prefer the original.

Gonna test beta 3 now.

[dreammaster]

fluxmaster, you never get to give the fish oil to Manannan. If you experiment, you'll see that get it's the trigger for the thieves attacking you and taking your posessions. Plotwise, that's a good introduction for them; the next day (technically several days hence), a sub-thread becomes locating them and getting your stolen items back.

As far as day 2 goes, once you've finished your punishment for not having the fish oil (well, not anymore), it should move on to dinnertime for Manannan, and then night 2 begins.

[dreammaster]

I'm running low on finding any more bugs in beta 3. Below are the few more that I've managed to find:

Bugs
----
* Room 74 could still use some clipping fine tuning. I can walk to 217,72; a point where Alexander barely has one foot on solid ground
* Medusa as a statue has no use action (having used stuff pockets to get the mirror; I haven't figured out where it's hidden in the remake yet)
* The medusa chase music plays if you return to the desert scene where you stoned Medusa. Is this intended?
* You should be able to use the jar of water in the desert to stave off dying of thirst
* I don't think the "dying of thirst" in the desert countdown is being properly reset when you leave the desert. I was near collapsing when I left the desert, and got an immediately warning dialog the moment I re-entered it
* When the treehouse rope ladder is down, you can walk right through it
* There's no look or use description for the spiderweb strand
* I enter room 94 at 158,57 I then click to move south to 158,92, but instead Alexander turns and leaves the screen to the north


PS: Loved the Harry Potter reference when trying to deal with the snake. 

[fluxmaster]

More bugs:

V3 room 25 [230,114]: Clicking eye on oak table splits message unnaturally
V3 room 15 [232,138]: *Error* No message for 'touch cat' (log me please)
V3 room 25 [196,137]: *Error* no message for 'touch toad spittle' (log me please)
V3 room 25 [196,137]: *Error* no message for 'touch jar' (log me please)

I also got the following errors:

An error has occured. . . . (Same as before)

(Global script line 1501.)
Error: ResetRoom: cannot reset current room

* error seeking entry!
(please note room number 29, and from exactly where you entered it)

I'm not sure, but I think that both of the above errors occured in Alexander's bedroom while sleeping or clicking on the bed.

I got stuck at the part with the cat on the stairs.  I know that there's a spoiler posted in this thread, but I prefer to solve it myself.  I tried all the obvious things--talking to the cat, touching the cat, clicking the three objects that I found in the lab on the cat, climbing the wall, pulling the torch out of its socket and setting the cat on fire--but none of them worked.  So, for the moment I have teleported past the cat, but I'm going to continue to try to figure out that problem on my own.

At this point I'm stuck at the part where the wizard tells Alexander to fetch firewood.  I have nothing to chop down the firewood with.  Reliant, could you answer the following question:  Did teleporting past the cat bypass a trigger, so that the firewood puzzle is not soluble at this point?

I tried the bears' house, fetched the one object that I could find inside, and upon leaving the bears' house got the following message:

V3 room 73 [160,122]: *error seeking entry room number 73

There were numberous other objects which, when clicked, gave the message "*Error* no message for '<object>' (log me please)", but I haven't logged all of them.  Do you basically already know what these are, or should I log each and every one?

Some general observations:  Although I like the fact that the game has no dead ends, I don't like the fact that the game is so linear that the puzzles can only be solved in a preset order.  But I suppose that to make the game non-linear or to allow more freedom would probably introduce dead ends, so perhaps there's nothing to be done about that.  So I agree with deltamatrix's comment that this game will not destroy the value of the original, because the original gives the player the freedom to complete tasks in different orders.

[Radiant]

-- noted --
I'll be back soon.

[Radiant]

Dreammaster -> no, you shouldn't start with a cinnastix, and Manannan should indeed disappear again. The cat appearing you mention is actually a bug.
Repetitive scrolling on the up/down buttons is, I believe, not actually possible in AGS, but I'll look into it.

Fluxmaster -> Hm, maybe I should remove the teleport cheat DM is correct, you can't actually give him the fish oil.
The firewood puzzle isn't solvable at this point, period. That's plot point fourteen. (well, technically you can find wood somewhere)

Messages '*error seeking entry' have nothing to do with what you did earlier or what you're carrying, the only relevant information to those errors is where exactly you came from and where you were going.
Messages '* no message for <touch/look> <thing>' - for inventory items, I am aware of these because I have a neat list in the source code. If, however, they occur when clicking on a hotspot (e.g. the windows at night, in earlier betas) I would appreciate hearing from them.

Regarding linearity. That's a very good point. Up to now most of your comments have been technical, which is highly useful since there are plenty of bugs at this point. However I would also appreciate story-based comments from anybody who has an opinion. It's difficult to make things non-linear. For instance, I wanted the thieves to steal your inventory at some point, so that the player is forced to get them back. That's linear. Also the player must be guaranteed to carry something important at that time, or he could just ignore the puzzle.
Note that KQ3 original is actually very linear as well, only this is disguised by the fact that there really aren't that many puzzles in the game. In Llewdor, all you can do is 1) find the lab, 2) get ingredients, 3) defeat medusa, 4) defeat spider, 5) get your stuff back from robbers, 6) make spells, 7) defeat wizard and 8) join the ship. 3, 4 and 5 are optional. 1 and 2 are interchangeable. Other than that, the order is {1, 2} -> 6 -> 7 -> 8. After that, the game gets strictly linear as you travel.
That said, I would like some branches in KQ3+. I have several thoughts about optional puzzles, and note that you can do certain things at any time, e.g. dealing with the fisherman (okay, that isn't much of a puzzle, I agree). Dealing with the bears would also be nice as a do-when-you-want-it puzzle. What do I mean by that? Oh, I just thought the bears wouldn't leave their cottage open and unlocked when there's robbers afoot

[dreammaster]

Please don't remove the teleporter. I admit that it has the potential for abuse, but I've found it invaluable for getting to areas quickly for testing. And not just for getting down the mountain in the absense of the magic map.

A few minor issues found today, nothing major:

* V3 room 83 [25,87]: Clipping error - you can walk through the rock
* V3 room 84 [16,153]: Clipping error - you walk in front of the black rock
* Desert - Manannan will rarely appear briefly as you wander the desert, but clicking the talk icon on anything else on the screen will say "there's nobody to talk to". A talk response for Manannan would be good for if the player is fast enough.. even something simple like "He simply looks at you without responding"
* If you swim east from the end of the pier, then west, you don't return to the pier

[fluxmaster]

Latest bug found:

V3 room 85 [203,117]: Returning from a swim, Alexander walks in place.

When Alexander goes swimming in the ocean and returns to shore, when he gets on shore and stops he walks in place.Ã,  If I try to move him, he swims on land.Ã,  Stopping him, he walks in place again, and, moving him, he continues to swim on land.Ã,  This happens when he enters the shore from the small stream.



In the original Kings Quest games, it was fun to use the teleport feature to teleport the main character from water to land and watch him swim on land, or from being transported through the air to land and watch him fly on land.Ã,  But in this game it happened without using the teleport feature.

I used the spoiler to get past the cat (that was a very difficult puzzle), and I've gotten as far as trying to find firewood, which Radiant says is as far as you can go in àŸ3.Ã,  However, dreammaster has written about solving the Medusa puzzle and getting into the treehouse.Ã,  Does the Medusa puzzle have a different solution from the original?Ã,  I couldn't find the wizard's hand mirror, so I tried using the broken glass on the Medusa while facing away, but that hasn't worked so far.Ã,  Do I have to do it very quickly?Ã,  I've also tried reaching into the hole in the tree to deploy the ladder, but nothing happened.Ã,  I went back to the original game to make sure that I was at the same tree.Ã,  Is the treehouse in the same tree as in the original?Ã,  Is a different action needed to get to the treehouse?

A general observation that I've made is that the original game was difficult overall, because I spent a lot of time just figuring out what I was supposed to be doing, but this game is extremely easy, except for a few places where it is extremely difficult.Ã,  Most of the time it is just too obvious what the player is supposed to do, but I'm not sure whether that is because of the linearity or simply due to the fact that I've already played the original.Ã,  Some of the new puzzles that you've added, however, are quite difficult.Ã,  It's difficult for me to comment on the overall difficulty of the game, since I've played the original and know what to expect.Ã,  If you could find someone who's never played the origial to play this game, perhaps he could give you a good idea as to the difficulty level.Ã,  Better yet, if he could play this game first and play the original later, and if he said that this game was difficult overall but that the original was relatively easy, then that would refute my comments about most of this game's being too easy.

[Radiant]

Yes, you can kill the medusa. But if you look at the glass shard, you'll notice it's not particularly reflective. You can also get in the treehouse but you can't take your stuff yet (not implemented yet in B3).

You have an interesting point about the original vs the remake.
Might I state that most people found the original difficult, because the first time they played it they didn't have the documentation? (true in my case, plus I was eight at the time and didn't know much english then, I didn't get the legal version of the game much later). With the manual, it becomes rather easy to find all the ingredients since they're just there, and make the spells as described. That accounts for about 140 of the 210 points.
I believe what you're saying is that KQ3+ is too easy because you just have to do what the wizard tells you. That's a good point. But bear in mind that several parts of the game are as yet missing, and of course the point in defeating the wizard is doing what he does not tell you. For instance, did you get the fish yet? What about the salt? Needle? (I'd add snakeskin and fly wings, but they aren't available yet in your version; plus there will be the question of how you're going to get out of your room at night again, since Manny will be locking it in the future)
That said, suggestions are welcome. For instance I haven't been able to think of a good solution to the spider puzzle, because the original solution is found by most players as they just start flying around the countryside for fun, and then suddenly the puzzle is solved.
Of course they shuold be able to fly around just for fun, but solving puzzles should at least require some conscious thought.
Another question - is the cat puzzle unfair? It seems to stump a lot of people, whereas I intended it to be simply solvable by looking around in the lab. Or is it that people just assume the puzzle isn't solvable yet because it's a beta?

Thoughts welcome!

[fluxmaster]

Radiant, can you answer my questions from my previous post:Ã,  Do the treehouse and Medusa puzzles have the same solution as in the original or different solutions?Ã,  Because I am unable to find the rope to pull to deploy the ladder, and I am unable to find anything to polish the piece of glass with (although I just started looking a few minutes ago.)

I wouldn't call the cat puzzle unfair, just very difficult.Ã,  One thing that I might say, though, is that I believe that there is a message to the effect that you don't need anything else on the shelves at the moment--that would lead me to abandon the shelves as a place to look for the solution.Ã,  I don't remember the exact message, but you may want to reword that message so as not to discourage the player from looking there.

[dreammaster]

Fluxmaster, as I said in my previous post, I killed off Medusa by stuffing my pockets to have all items available. Admittantly there's the potential to ruin the puzzles, but I wanted to properly search the desert for any bugs, and couldn't with that blasted Medusa stoning me all the time. Interesting comment from Radiant - that you can kill Medusa legitimately in this beta; now I'll have something to occupy me until the next beta comes out.Ã,  8)

As a general statement about the remake, it is more regimented in that it won't let you do something before you know about it. For example, you can't open the trapdoor level until you've seen Manannan do it. That raises a point. When you click on the oak tree hole without knowing that it's important it says "there's nothing important there". IMHO, It might be better to say something like "You briefly consider sticking your hand into an unknown hole, but don't want to run the risk of your fingers being bit off".

[Radiant]

Fluxmaster -> Medusa has the same solution, yes. The treehouse is still there, only the trick is that while you know where it is, Gwydion does not. That's a hint
(you don't polish the piece of glass; if you take a broken bottle and polish it, it won't become reflective. But it's a good idea, I'll add some text indicating that. What you should do is find the mirror, only you can't get it yet in B3, so you must 'stuff pockets' to get it. This will be better implemented in B4).

As to the cat puzzle, I took the list of things you tried and added a number of texts for those to nudge the player in the right direction. That should help.

In general, if you try something (in particular, use <item> on <hotspot>) and you think it needs a response, let me know! (other than basic responses, such as 'you cannot do that')

Dream -> Now that you mention it I'm not fully sure that you can legit kill Medusa in B3 (I'm at beta 3.75 here and I'm not fully sure which parts I added in B3). So don't spend too much time on it yet

Good point both on the look-at-shelf and put-hand-in-hole stuff.



> There are also times when Alexander encounters the wizard, the wizard has
> nothing to say to him, yet, when Alexander leaves the screen, the wizard
> punishes him for leaving his presence.  I assume that this is intended.

Yes, it is. After all, walking out on someone is impolite. And Manny
is just one mean bastard


The wizard sometimes appears and says nothing relevant (i.e. 'its him again'
or 'his stare is annoying')... he should of course disappear afterwards.
If he doesn't, please tell me /when/ exactly this happened (i.e. morning,
night, etc, and what your last order from the wiz was)


> When Manannan is sleeping in his bed, there's a brief flash of yellow that
> keeps happening. I wonder if this is a graphic glitch or it's meant to indicate
> another item?

Assuming you mean the brief flash on top of the right-hand closet, then yes
that's meant to indicate another item (to wit, the brass key). If not, please
tell me what and where.