Would you like a remake of Maniac Mansion?

[Mats Berglinn]

Ok, enough of the junk-talk!

AGA: The style you have seen so far is not DoTT, yes I agree with that. I'm not going to do all the graphics alone, I may try to make the backgrounds into DoTT style but I'm going to find someone who are can transform the MM backgrounds into DoTT style. Myself I'm going to do a lot of the characters, not only ripping using SCUMM revisted but also draw characters into DoTT style. I have done two transformation, the Purple Meteor and the Meteor Police.

Karius: Many others before me have used copyright characters so it's nothing new and very, very, very few have ever been caught (m0ds haven't been caught for using Indiana Jones or Roy Lazorowich for using Lucas Arts characters in Night of the Hermit.) but of course I will make a slightly younger Bernard because his about 15 in MM (I think) and DoTT was 5 years after MM. I will rip the Tentacles from DoTT (I know Purple doesn't have arms there so don't worry) and Doctor Fred because he does look the same (Somehow it's silly to change skin into blue becase DoTT never had blue skin and Dr. Fred never got Pink skin when he was saved from the Meteor) but I will redraw Weird Ed and Edna because in DoTT they always sat in chairs while they walked in MM.

About the multi-player stuff: Sorry, it's way to advanced and complex stuff for me to do. It will also follow the original with a few exceptions but the puzzles will be the same.

Ok, here are the last words for now: Stop complaining about the not having remakes!!!   You're just afraid that I'm gonna screw it up and it will be bad but it won't!! I mean look at King's Quest VGA I and II, they are have so high marks. Did anyone complained about them? No! And another thing: I already have some own original things and there are WAY too few remakes so... if you're negative to this, stay away from this topic, ok?  

EDIT: I risk to be banned from the community? There are no such rule around here! You're just made up to scare my pants of me but I see through your little lie there. Where does it say that anyone who those a remake of a classic game will be baned from the AGS community? That is just ridicculous!

[Goldmund]

if you're negative to this, stay away from this topic, ok?  

Have you ever read the title of your thread, Matt?

[Mats Berglinn]

Yes but I just had enough of complains. And will you please stop spelling my name wrong? I'm not from America, I'm from Sweden. Now please, stick to the topic.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Ok, I'll stick to the topic - listen to the community's views about remaking stuff, and you MIGHT learn something about the best way to do your own remakes!

Do I sound angry? I probably do. I apologise, but I say it again - read between the lines, this whole toipic is brimming with information, believe it or not.

EDIT - And what I said about being banned, it was a JOKE, where I meant I (ME) ran the risk of being banned for daring to suggest that such a classic be remade, because as we've seen some people have strong views on that! But it was just a JOKE!

[MrColossal]

matts, did you skip over all the people who said "Do what you want and be happy."?

if so:

Do what you want and be happy.

If you ask people for their opinion and you don't like it then don't get mad at them for offering it up.

And I can guarantee you there are tons of people who don't like the KQ remakes and the great thing about that is that it doesn't matter. Tierra or whatever they're called now can do whatever they want because they want to do it. So do what you want and be happy.

[Esseb]

Edit: I can't read.

[jannar85]

On second thought... I never finished MM.. so maybe this may be an oppertunity for me to complete the game (remake) for one times sake.

It would be cute if it will be made good enough.
I wish you best of luck!

P.S - Mind if I could see one of the sprites?

[Goldmund]

And will you please stop spelling my name wrong? I'm not from America, I'm from Sweden.

Know, my hapless friend, that driven by ill will I shall call you "Matt" till death sprinkles grey ash on my eyelids.

As for the original topic:
I would much prefer if you remade DOTT to make it in graphical style of Maniac Mansion.
The latter's graphic was circa kazillion times better than the DOTT's forced, quasi-weird antics.

[DGMacphee]

Why did the King Quest remakes succeed?

Good question -- sometimes, no one knows what will succeed.

But in my honest opinion, I prefer to play an original game than a remake.

I didn't play KQ1VGA remake because it was basically the same game as the origianal.

But the KQ2VGA remake was a re-written game and deserved its praise -- I played it to the end and enjoyed it.

That is why I'm not for a Maniac Mansion remake -- because if you do a updated graphics version, then what else is there to keep me playing.

If you did a version of Maniac Mansion with new rooms, extra characters, and a different take on the story (and all while keeping with the feel of the original), then that would give me an incentive to play it.

But to just update the game so you've got DOTT-like sprites isn't enough reason for me to play a remake.

Then again, KQ1 has been downloaded over a half a million times (as quoted on AGD's website), so who am I to say what works?

P.S. Mats, instead of telling all negative people to butt out, what not ask them why they're negative about such a project? You might get some useful feedback.

[DragonRose]

Edit: The first paragraph makes no sense now, 'cause DG has editing skillz.  Before, all he had were the first to lines of his post.

Ooo! I know I know! Because they were significant technological updates, as well as graphical. They changed from a parser to point and click.  Maniac Mansion, however, already was point and click.  So unless you're going to make it 3D, it's really just the same thing as it was before, it just looks different.

Second, people couldn't play their old copies of KQ 1 and 2 anymore, due to technological changes- namely, lack of DOS support.  However, Maniac Mansion can be played through SCUMMVM.

Mats: I for one, am not afraid you're going to "screw it up" as you said. I've only recently started playing LucasArts adventures, and I've never played MM.  I couldn't care less about nostaligia or what the game was like before. I do, however, think that I can go over to E-bay and get Maniac Mansion for five bucks, but I can't play whatever games you might think up on your own unless you make up something original.

There's a saying in some fan-art circles that I feel is particularly poignant- "Tracing is great, but I'd rather see you create!"

[GarageGothic]

This isn't so much about the specific idea of a Maniac Mansion remake, as it is about game remakes in general.

I've though a lot about the purpose of remakes since I joined this community. Because I don't really understood them. The truth is, when it comes to old games, I don't really care about graphics and I don't care about the interface, as long as it's playable. I didn't care much for remakes back when Sierra started re-doing their first Quests, and I don't really see the point of making them now. Your audience is pretty much the people who've already played the original, and a few who didn't, but might as well download the original from an abandonware site as play your remake. Yes, the graphics may be improved, but if I hated 1987-graphics so much that I wouldn't even play the game, do really think 1993-graphics would make me change my mind?

I didn't play KQ1VGA remake because it was basically the same game as the origianal.

I did play it, and except for the nostalgia and the pretty graphics, it sucked just as hard as it did when Roberta Williams wrote it back in 1984. I'm not going to tell people how to spend their time. But I certainly wouldn't have gone through all that work to remake one of the worst designed adventures ever without a serious rewrite.

Because they were significant technological updates, as well as graphical. They changed from a parser to point and click.

This does seem to be a valid argument for a lot of people who didn't grow up with the parser interface. Look at the LSL2 and 3 remakes (is LSL2 still in production?). They are the exact same games with a new, and supposedly improved, interface.

Second, people couldn't play their old copies of KQ 1 and 2 anymore, due to technological changes- namely, lack of DOS support.

This is the worst excuse I've ever heard, unless you're using Linux or something. The AGI games are pretty much the only Sierra games that for certain work under XP, because they don't use sound cards, which is THE major compatibility issue with other games. The ONLY problem would be if you bought the game on the original 5.4" discs and couldn't crack the copy protection to run it off your new computer. But seriously, how many people have that problem?

But the KQ2VGA remake was a re-written game and deserved its praise -- I played it to the end and enjoyed it.

Yes, this I get. The folks at Tierra loves the King's Quest series, but the first two games are its low point. So they decide to take the basic idea of the second game and totally rewrite it to match the quality of the later games. This makes sense. But I'm not sure what other games would deserve this treatment. And certainly not the fabulous Maniac Mansion. As they say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Yes, you love the game. A lot of us do. But does it really need to be remade? Unlike KQ2 it isn't an inferior part of the series. The interface is pretty much the same as later LucasArts games, and the design is imho even better than DOTT's. What about creating something new, while still re-using the things you love about MM? It could be a sequel - in-between MM and DOTT perhaps - a prequel, or maybe a spinoff with some of the other MM characters that didn't return in DOTT? Look at all the Zak McKracken sequels out there. I know for certain that I enjoyed The New Adventure of Zak McKracken even more than I would have enjoyed a remake of the original.

[DGMacphee]

Actually, I agree with GG there -- If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

There was a lot wrong with KQ2 in terms of structure and narrative -- Tierra patched these things up.

But with Maniac Mansion, the story and depth of eahc character seems pretty well written anyway.

[Erwin_Br]

I can't and won't judge until I've seen at least a bit of the work. I mean, I wasn't very enthousastic when Tierra started with their KQ1 remake, until I saw how beatiful it's screenshots looked.

I'm a big fan of the DOTT style artwork, btw.

--Erwin

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Look at the LSL2 and 3 remakes (is LSL2 still in production?)

That it is, just about 6 rooms away from the end.

Incidentally, here's my view on remakes and why I decided to remake LSL2 - I firmly believe anyone should have the right to experience a good game. Windows XP doesn't let us play some good games, and LSL2 has a now-cumbersome interface anyway. But my remake is as faithful as possible to the original, my philosophy is - if I'm playing a remake, I don't want to play a new game, I want the same plot, the same clues, the same dead ends, the same rewards, and if I wont have that, I want to know - King's Quest 2 VGA is only acceptable once you realize it's MORE than a remake. LSL2 is ONLY a remake, and I believe this is what the greatest distinction should be - is it ONLY a remake, or MORE than that?

[Privateer Puddin']

but i happen to   the parser :o

and i can play it on xp :/

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

So can I, but I don't get any sound. And there's many other games I can't play at all.

[Mats Berglinn]

I'm not doing this remake just to give the game new graphic and new music but there are some other reasons to it.

1: It is the first SCUMM GUI game but because you couldn't use the mouse back in the late 80's/ early 90's which is pretty cumbersome especially to the ones who have only played the later SCUMM engine based games like Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle. Trust me, it took awhile for me before I got used to it but it felt somehow sluggish compaired with the SCUMM GUI you could use with the mouse. Also it's quite boring when you can't check a thing because there was no "Look at" commando or that you could talk to anyone (It makes more sense to talk to Green Tentacle or something because it can maybe give you clues to what to do better than just those comments.). I have tried "What is" commando but nothing happened, so that is better to change the old SCUMM GUI into the newer SCUMM GUI.

2: You know about calling Nurse Edna puzzle? I have tried that one but every time I go inside the room with other kid she just catch you and that is a low point. I'm going to change that so that Edna will always be distracted when you sneak into her room while she's talking in the telephone. It's better that way.

3: I bet you haven't noticed those plot-holes in Maniac Mansion. At the beginning of the game you only see the text "20 years ago today", meteor crashes at the front yard and then the title comes before you see Dave and the other two kids at the front yard of the Mansion. I would make more sense if you made a longer cut-scene so you really see that Dr. Fred and the Edisons discovers the Purple Meteor, that he somehow controll Fred's mind into taking the meteor into the lab, that strange things happens in the mansion and finally 20 years later Dr. Fred kidnaps Sandy and take her to the lab. It's much better way to tell the story because it makes more sense. I played DoTT before MM and when I played MM some things confused me like that Dr. Fred is evil when he was just grumpy in DoTT. It would be better to know that the meteor is controlling Dr. Fred in the beginning rather than knowing at the end. And also there is something that is not right in MM compaired with DoTT. In DoTT Bernard couldn't lift the bowling ball in the Tentacles' room but you can in MM use the Hunk-O-Matick to get stronger with any character. I mean just because that you don't workout in 5 years it doesn't mean you really get THAT weak. Also it's more exciting that only some characters can use the Hunk-O-Matic, maybe Dave and Jeff, the surfer dude. It makes them both valueble because Dave is just the leader, he have no special talent and Jeff can only fix a telephone when it's better to have Bernard who can fix a telephone and use a radio-tube.

4: There are some stuff in MM that needs to be changing because it's annoying. For example just hang around and wait for the post box for Green Tentacle's contract to come is so boring. It's better that it comes instantly like the delivery of the diamond in DoTT or there will be something like "A few hours later" and then the contract is in postbox. Another stupid thing in MM was that if you opened the envelope you couldn't use it for sending corrected script/demo tape. Annoying, isn't it? That would be one thing I won't do in my remake, instead the player won't open it by rip it up. And if can't the package before Weird Ed gets it you never get the chance to get the stamps. I mean how annoying is that? I think the player deserves a second chance, like you can get into Ed's room when he's not there and then get the stamps from the opened package.

Well, that's the reasons so far. Don't you you guys agree that the these reasons do make do answer the question "Why remake Maniac Mansion when it's perfect?"? In my opinion some things that seem perfect aren't 100 % perfect. See what I mean?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I see, and agree, but  should call you to attention in some points -

At the beginning of the game you only see the text "20 years ago today", meteor crashes at the front yard and then the title comes before you see Dave and the other two kids at the front yard of the Mansion. I would make more sense if you made a longer cut-scene so you really see that Dr. Fred and the Edisons discovers the Purple Meteor, that he somehow controll Fred's mind into taking the meteor into the lab, that strange things happens in the mansion and finally 20 years later Dr. Fred kidnaps Sandy and take her to the lab. It's much better way to tell the story because it makes more sense. I played DoTT before MM and when I played MM some things confused me like that Dr. Fred is evil when he was just grumpy in DoTT. It would be better to know that the meteor is controlling Dr. Fred in the beginning rather than knowing at the end.

Well, MM DOES come before DoTT, so it's really your fault for being confused - yours and anyone's who decided to play number two before number one. It's not a plothole, or even a nuisance, and it's in fact the heart of the whole thing - you start off thinking the guy and his family are all a bunch of psychos, and it's only later on that you realize they're all right, the REAL enemy is the meteor, and THAT's when you realize you have to get rid of it. I think you should leave it like the original. At most, add the "20 years later, the doctor kidnaps sandy" bit of the cutscene.

And also there is something that is not right in MM compaired with DoTT. In DoTT Bernard couldn't lift the bowling ball in the Tentacles' room but you can in MM use the Hunk-O-Matick to get stronger with any character. I mean just because that you don't workout in 5 years it doesn't mean you really get THAT weak.

Remember that in MM, you don't necessarily HAVE to play with Bernard, and HE doesn't HAVE to be the one to use the Hunk-O-Matic. And besides, if you don't work out in 5 years and lead a life like I think Bernard does, he WOULD get weak indeed.

As for all the rest, I agree with you, especially on the newer SCUMM GUI thingy. MM DOES need some revitalizing.

[MrColossal]

i like how in 5 years you can't imagine someone not being able to lift a bowling ball but in 5 minutes of excersize you're ok with him being able to rip open the grating

this game isn't ment to make perfect sense otherwise that entire sequence would have to be taken out along with a large majority of the puzzles [a nuclear reactor would not work if you just stuck it in a swimming pool]

i really don't agree with a thing you wrote besides the whole mouse driven cursor...

but again, it doesn't matter what i want it's all up to you

[Kweepa]

This whole thread is certainly making me want to play Maniac Mansion. If I was going to play a remake, I'd like this feature list:
- point and click interface
- labelled hotspots
- undo for deaths (if there are any?)
- no dead ends

I probably wouldn't play your remake, Mats, because your English doesn't seem to be very good. Bad English puts me off games (particularly comedies) much quicker than bad artwork. Well, there it is.