The annual AGS awards debate

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 11:43:38

As it gets near the end of the year, perhaps it is time to have the old AGS Awards debate:

1. Is the nomination system OK?
2. Is the final voting system OK?
3. Are there any categories missing?
4. Any any of the existing awards mis-named or confusing, etc.

For reference, here's the 2007 awards Wiki page and the thoughts I posted on my blog about the 2007 awards at the time

My answers to the above questions are as follows:

1. Yes, although a better nomination page would help
2. Yes, although a better voting page might help
3. Yes: Best Voice Acting for sure and maybe Best Remake or Parody
4. Yes: Best Use of Sound should be Best Sound Effects to distinguish it from above new Voice Acting award...

And one final question:

5. Was the AGS-made presentation ceremony a good thing?

bicilotti · Thu 02/10/2008 11:49:51

I will take my time to answer the full survey. Let me only say that (question 5), it was such a nice, hilarious and well made thing that I've saved it on my personal folder and I watch it now and then when I want to smile for a bit.

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 11:54:03

While we're here, also a note to all game creators: make sure your game is the the DB by 31st December 2008 or it will not be eligible for this year's awards. That includes demos, too, if you want to be up for the demo category.

NB: the 103 (as of this edit) games eligible so far are listed here

Dualnames · Thu 02/10/2008 12:04:41

I'm wondering, we lack two categories..
Really.

Most innovative
And best newbie appearance(someone who made his first game)

Akatosh · Thu 02/10/2008 12:08:55

We DO have "most innovative", but it's just chosen by a mysterious "jury" of some kind, not by public vote, and it doesn't show up in the database.

I'm talking from experience here.

bicilotti · Thu 02/10/2008 12:23:31

Ok, to answer the first 4 questions:

1-2 the nomination system / voting one: they both work fine, I didn't find any particular problem in placing my vote.

3 - A best newbie appearance, as Dual said, could be fun and rewarding for them. I think the committee could chose that too.
Also, best Voice acting, as you said, would be a great addition.

4 - best documentation could be renamed (I don't know, best tutorial, best introduction to adventure gaming, something like that), since as it is named now it makes me think of big unformatted readme.txt files.
I am puzzled by the exact meaning of "best Gameplay too", but I feel that I'm the only, dumb one who did not get that.

edit: also, why not show the "best innovation" award in the game database?

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 12:24:32

Hmmm, need to get CJ on to fixing that "not in the DB" issue...

Best Newbie is fine, but determining if someone is a newbie is a bit fraught. Do you count "my first gaem" efforts, demos, non-adventures or not. How new is a newbie? If m0ds finally released a full game, could he win?

As for gameplay, you can either take it as a measure of how fun the game is to play, how intuitive or innovative it is to control or how good the game would be if you ignore its graphics and sound. Its a bit vague, but perhaps usually goes to a game that maybe isn't best overall but yet is great fun. Although in odd-numbered years its always gone to the Best-Game winner!

bicilotti · Thu 02/10/2008 12:25:48

Quote from: SSH on Thu 02/10/2008 12:24:32
Hmmm, need to get CJ on to fixing that "not in the DB" issue...

Best Newbie is fine, but determining if someone is a newbie is a bit fraught. Do you count "my first gaem" efforts, demos, non-adventures or not. How new is a newbie? If m0ds finally released a full game, could he win?

I think: registered in the current year.

bicilotti · Thu 02/10/2008 12:30:45

Also, I'd like to see the p3n15 award back (and, contextually, to nominate my gem, Happy Horse).

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 12:32:12

Quote from: bicilotti on Thu 02/10/2008 12:25:48
Quote from: SSH on Thu 02/10/2008 12:24:32
Hmmm, need to get CJ on to fixing that "not in the DB" issue...

Best Newbie is fine, but determining if someone is a newbie is a bit fraught. Do you count "my first gaem" efforts, demos, non-adventures or not. How new is a newbie? If m0ds finally released a full game, could he win?

I think: registered in the current year.

But what if Dave Gilbert re-registered as a new user?

Dualnames · Thu 02/10/2008 12:45:00

Ok, concerning the newbie, want me to list all the considered as candidates for so far newbie award? If that comes in...

but anyway, to help you and the rest get it, it's like:

One game(a complete, non-joke, non-demo)
by one user(one man/woman one nickname)
that has logged into the AGS forums(any date any year).
It's more like an award called "The newbie award".

Notes:
If someone gets ivy to do the graphics for his first game, the game's getting the award(not the user)
If someone gets to do only music, it's not his first game, it's the first game's he's been on.
If someone makes graphics or story(programming ONLY doesn't count), and the audience considers that he has done at least the 40% of the game or he's done the bigger amount of game he gets the award).

Examples: If Grundislav hadn't made any other games with AGS, he wouldn't be illegible for helping Ivy, since she had the story and graphics.

If akatosh, hadn't made other games as well, he'd be illegilble since the other person isn't a member, but if he was he would get the award, since he's done probably more or the same amount of work with akatosh(he had the idea, and made the graphics).

If I hadn't made other games and HHGTG would be completed this year, I would get the award, since I've actually scripted, made the music, graphics, animation..

So that concludes into:
a)The man who posts the game at the completed games, is usually the one behind it
b)He must haven't made any other game(or partecipated, unless he's done only the music, or helped a bit at programming).
c)If someone has made more amount of work than the other/s, and he's made another game, the game should not be able to partecipate

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 12:51:11

In other words, its complicated enough that it would probably need to be done by committee...

Ali · Thu 02/10/2008 13:36:45

Quote from: SSH on Thu 02/10/2008 11:43:38
5. Was the AGS-made presentation ceremony a good thing?

Vehemently, yes! It was the best thing about the whole awards, especially how tall Nelly Cootalot was compared to the other sprites!

m0ds · Thu 02/10/2008 15:21:35

I'd have to disagree, I prefer a live ceremony in chat. I can't believe I waited for so long last time only to find out a day or so before that the awards weren't going to be on IRC. It used to pull in lots and lots of people, did it begin to decline? Half the fun of the awards, for me, is to be able to clap in the developers face after they win! So, I'll probably be a sour puss and abstain this year round if it's going to be a download ceremony.

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 15:27:54

You mean you won't attend the unattendable ceremony?

m0ds · Thu 02/10/2008 15:36:34

No, I mean I want a decent explanation as to why there isn't a ceremony like that anymore otherwise I don't feel like voting. It was a tradition in my eyes, that got slashed without any notice. Unless of course I missed something. Every year a thread gets created & all hell breaks loose when you open to the floor the suggestion of categories. I think this again over-shadows the real issue which is why you're chosing to not bring the community together for what is always a fun night & instead make us all find out the results personally, alone. It's great that you run the awards Andrew & you do a fantastic job of it. It's great that you know how to program too and want to impress us with your skillz behind the wheelz for the AGS Awards but I really do not see why a good social evening should be turned away just to be replaced with a pretty .exe file. It's fun to vote, but it's more fun to be a part of the ceremony that used to take place afterwards. And the IRC awards night was always a mini-AGS-gathering of its own.

From here on, we can always go back and download the ceremony game, read the Wiki award pages to find out who won etc, but nothing compares to being there that night, with the guest speakers, the specially chosen hosts (didnt Layafoo do it one year??) and of course, the TENSION!1 Man, I was soooooo bored when I watched the Ceremony EXE. So bored I eventually turned it off & read the results on the Wiki. Well okay, so it was partly due to boredom and partly due to Nelly winning everything bar music...lol! But y'know, it just ain't the same! Other than that, the voting system works a treat, always has!

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 15:45:51

The trouble with organising the IRC ceremony is that it required a lot of organisation. Persuading people to come, informing of times, arranging guest presenters, finding a time that wouldn't make lots of people complain... also, I believe that IRC is not frequented so much these days, either. I'm quite happy to supply a list of the winners to anyone prepared to take over running of an IRC ceremony. If no-one volunteers then I'll just stick with the game version as last year.

I think that not going to all that effort for something that no-one ever thanked me for and instead creating something different is hardly "choosing not to bring the community together". You know, it was a bit of a last minute decision to do it that way and I wasn't sure it worked, which is why I politely asked, but there's no need to imply that I only did it to try and show off in some way. If you didn't like it fine, that's the feedback I'm looking for, but can we avoid making it personal?

EDIT:
Actually having just reviewed the 2006 awards IRC log I note two things:

a) 13 of the winners were not present to receive their awards
b) One of those absentee winners was m0ds.

Draw your own conclusions....

m0ds · Thu 02/10/2008 16:17:28

It wasn't personal, you know that. You asked for feedback on something you made and are doing and I fedback on it. I can't not relate it to you if it's something relating to you! :

We all go to lots of efforts here that are sometimes never thanked for, but that generally doesn't stop people. I agree that IRC popularity has declined a lot, but that doesn't mean we need to through relay chat in the bin. There aren't really any other AGS related events that would get people involved in relay chat, so it's a shame to abandon it completely. I regret not making it to the 2006 awards which made me determined to make the next one, and from that you can then see then why I was so peeved that there wasn't a 2007 ceremony. I feel bad that I wasn't able to congratulate my team that year.

No matter what, it's not a personal stab, but I said this last year and I'll say it again - I don't like to download the ceremony. I like to be at it.

I will gladly organise an IRC event & make sure its advertised well in advance on the AGS website, YouTube & bigbluecup forum & news bar, etc. It's the only thing worth looking forward too in the dark months of the new year, it's even more important than my birthday (and more fun!

) so yes, if you say you'll give the information over on an IRC night, then it should be done & I'll gladly do it. Even if no-one turns up, it won't be a dead loss. I'll still have wine!

TheJBurger · Thu 02/10/2008 16:54:19

I think the awards system is adequate enough as is, but I really think non-adventure games should be allowed to compete in the other categories as well.

As far as the ceremony goes, I really liked it, but I can see where M0ds is coming from too. It would probably be too much work to make both the ceremony "game" and organize the IRC ceremony, huh?

SSH · Thu 02/10/2008 17:15:19

m0ds, you might want to try the new Stickam feature of "debate" rooms which features 2 prominent video streams and up to 999 people per room: its like video IRC and might suit the awards ceremony.

But hey, the live ceremony is your baby now! Bwuahahahah!