Let's build a new AGS demo game!

[RootBound]

Is frog going to be an animated object?

Maybe! If the player clicks on it, the frog could perhaps make a noise and puff itself up.

[RootBound]

There, that wasn't too difficult! (Only the first 3 frames are unique).



And this is a public domain (CC0) frog sound:

https://freesound.org/people/egomassive/sounds/536759/

[lapsking]

You might want to use some of these sound effects for the demo, some of them are copyrighted so only can be used for AGS demo.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15A332gdltwEha2MpfrIOaewdDX2jOPJB

The footsteps sounds might be irrevelant since I'm not sure what the path outside is made of. Also their speed needs to be adjusted with characters walking speed. Usually SFX is one of the last things one does. But we'll, I hope some of them will be useful for the demo.

[lapsking]

In MHO opinion there are too many opinions and it seems that's why the demo is taking longer than the engine. Can't engine developers come to a conclusion what they need to be in the demo (which offers more than previous demos), then somebody write a story, somebody does the art and somebody does the scripting. Lots of people here make great games for MAGS in less than a month excluding me. Feel free to ignore MHO, because there are already too many opinions in MHO.

[Crimson Wizard]

In MHO opinion there are too many opinions and it seems that's why the demo is taking longer than the engine.

The demo is taking long, because a) nobody is in charge, b) nobody is working on it; simple like that.

Every project needs a director, who would take a responsibility of making a plan and organizing other participants.
From what I see, this demo project does not have a director. That's why it looks like "too many opinions", and having little progress.

Can't engine developers come to a conclusion what they need to be in the demo

Why do engine developers have to do this?!

For example, I am not even making games with AGS, I might be wrong about what's causing most issues with it, and don't know what troubles do beginners have. I could have made a mistake by participating in this discussion at all.

[OneDollar]

I was reading through this thread since Crimson Wizard mentioned it elsewhere and wondering whether to bump it, but lapsking beat me to it. I'd like to help out on this project if I can. @cat @RootBound and @Danvzare seem to be the main contributors so far (also CW, but he seems to keep trying to leave and getting dragged back in ). I guess the question is are you still interested in working on this?

[lapsking]

* The demo is taking longer than the engine, because nobody is working on it; simple like that.

Well, maybe just simplify it story-wise and art-wise. Even Zack's Adventures graphics are good enough to do the job. It's a game making engine (open-source) with no fundings. The game engine is not responsible to showing off graphics because it's not Microsoft Paint. We have to deal with graphics in other programs. Story-wise it can be as silly as smeone who wants to go out shopping but doesn't remember where his wallet is as usual. AGS doesn't need to show how someone is supposed to write a story. Most probably whoever ends up using AGS have tried few great AGS made games that has ended up trying the engine. To be honest Yaheetzee's games attracted me to AGS about almost 2 decades ago. I was just to busy with other things plus didn't have the push to start till few years ago. So seriously story and art is not a problem. People need to learn engine capabilities which doesn't need brilliant art or story. The graphics can be as rough as those adventure games we had to type verbs and sentences to get a task done. Just a bit more up-to-date than text adventures. Anyway, it shouldn't be your job. But makes everything faster.

* Can't engine developers come to a conclusion what they need to be in the demo. Why do engine developers have to do this?!

I suppose because you are making the engine. You know about the features better than anyone else. I mean in previous posts you were actually giving directions but got distracted by all this hustle and bustle. You don't make games but you know what to do, so others can make games. Nobody knows about the features of the engine as much as you do. You actually wrote what you think should be included in demo. To be honest actually there isn't much problem. But there are things that can be done to make our life easier. For example I remember when on Tumbleweed Timbleweed whatever template I changed the resolution to 1920x1080 the whole dialog GUI became a mess. Maybe I need to learn programming. But then the main bonus of AGS was it's user friendly interface which made it so attractive for random people around the world end up using it. Personally my problem wasn't demo. But if you gift us with a new feature like 1920x1080 resolution what about the messed up GUI on the template. I even don't remember how I sorted it out, it took me more than a week. Just being stubborn I guess, trying everything 1 by 1 randomly. But I think AGS developers shouldn't forget about user-friendly interfaces in AGS 4 for their new features. But anyway, it seems the engine is working thank to tutorials splashed all over the place and kind people in the forums. We are just giving feed back, don't see it like we have expectations. I'm personally more than grateful for everything.

[lapsking]

I was reading through this thread since Crimson Wizard mentioned it elsewhere and wondering whether to bump it, but lapsking beat me to it. I'd like to help out on this project if I can. @cat @RootBound and @Danvzare seem to be the main contributors so far (also CW, but he seems to keep trying to leave and getting dragged back in ). I guess the question is are you still interested in working on this?

I think Wizard has done most of his job already, he almost wrote down which engine features he thinks should be there, but maybe he just needs to adjust it with AGS 4.0. I don't think there is much point in releasing a demo for AGS 3.6 anymore with 4 being in development. Maybe Cat wants to be kind enough to come up with the story or finish off the current idea. Rootbound maybe can do the art if he is generous enough, or both art and story. And Danvzare writes the script. I don't know. Or Maybe one person aka OneDollar does everything to make it more practical and faster if he has the time, sure will be remembered as a hero among newbies and in my memory. I'll give you Thai massage to keep you going. 

[Crimson Wizard]

* Can't engine developers come to a conclusion what they need to be in the demo. Why do engine developers have to do this?!

I suppose because you are making the engine. You know about the features better than anyone else. I mean in previous posts you were actually giving directions but got distracted by all this hustle and bustle. You don't make games but you know what to do, so others can make games. Nobody knows about the features of the engine as much as you do. You actually wrote what you think should be included in demo.

I can tell about the features and how to use them. I can have an idea of what could be in the demo.
But if I will be the one making requirements for the demo, then I will also have to take responsibility of overviewing the progress and result of this work, demand corrections, and basically do management tasks. This will be an additional responsibility for me, which I cannot take now. Besides other things, I'm not in the right state of mind to do this. I'm tired of worrying of things being not how I expected them to be, and have grown weary of arguing with people.

he almost wrote down which engine features he thinks should be there, but maybe he just needs to adjust it with AGS 4.0. I don't think there is much point in releasing a demo for AGS 3.6 anymore with 4 being in development.

The basics are still the same in AGS 4.0, and at least half of new features in 4.0 are meant for advanced users. The demo made for 3.6.* will still be usable and useful in 4.0. If a 3.6 version is created, making a 4.0 version would be a matter of adding more stuff to it, like new chapters.

To be honest actually there isn't much problem. But there are things that can be done to make our life easier. For example I remember when on Tumbleweed Timbleweed whatever template I changed the resolution to 1920x1080 the whole dialog GUI became a mess.

So, this is a whole different issue then. One problem is that AGS does not support scaling GUIs; that's something that may be added to the TODO list for AGS 4. If there are more problems with "user friendliness" like that, then they also have to be written down and discussed.
Here's a forum thread that I opened for gathering list of major problems that would be nice to solve in the future:
https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/editor-development/ags-4-roadmap-discussion/

[lapsking]

* Can't engine developers come to a conclusion what they need to be in the demo. Why do engine developers have to do this?!

I suppose because you are making the engine. You know about the features better than anyone else. I mean in previous posts you were actually giving directions but got distracted by all this hustle and bustle. You don't make games but you know what to do, so others can make games. Nobody knows about the features of the engine as much as you do. You actually wrote what you think should be included in demo.

I can tell about the features and how to use them. I can have an idea of what could be in the demo.
But if I will be the one making requirements for the demo, then I will also have to take responsibility of overviewing the progress and result of this work, demand corrections, and basically do management tasks. This will be an additional responsibility for me, which I cannot take now. Besides other things, I'm not in the right state of mind to do this. I'm tired of worrying of things being not how I expected them to be, and have grown weary of arguing with people.

he almost wrote down which engine features he thinks should be there, but maybe he just needs to adjust it with AGS 4.0. I don't think there is much point in releasing a demo for AGS 3.6 anymore with 4 being in development.

The basics are still the same in AGS 4.0, and at least half of new features in 4.0 are meant for advanced users. The demo made for 3.6.* will still be usable and useful in 4.0. If a 3.6 version is created, making a 4.0 version would be a matter of adding more stuff to it, like new chapters.

To be honest actually there isn't much problem. But there are things that can be done to make our life easier. For example I remember when on Tumbleweed Timbleweed whatever template I changed the resolution to 1920x1080 the whole dialog GUI became a mess.

So, this is a whole different issue then. One problem is that AGS does not support scaling GUIs; that's something that may be added to the TODO list for AGS 4. If there are more problems with "user friendliness" like that, then they also have to be written down and discussed.
Here's a forum thread that I opened for gathering list of major problems that would be nice to solve in the future:
https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/editor-development/ags-4-roadmap-discussion/

I don't know exactly what's going in one's like including my own. You are doing more than what one should does. And I totally understand why you try your best not to get dragged into the matter. But it seems how the demo production was going on has a problem. As I said in the beginning (which wasn't directed at you) IMHO there are too many opinions. Everybody doing everything and nothing. While IMHO it's better to trust someone on the management and someone on the game making and let it go. Also simplifying everything. Usually people prefer to make art for their own stories. So maybe these responsibilities should be merged. I'm currently avoiding any opinions because I'm 24 hours in conflict with my own opinions as you can see! No room for an outsider opinion or might never get anywhere. So I totally understand if anyone wants to avoid my opinion too. I don't how I can be useful in the matter beside ranting, because there are already lots of people willing to participate. Doesn't look like my fART or story is much needed here. Danvzare or OneDollar can get the whole thing done in a month or so.

It will be great to add GUI scaling to TODO list for AGS 4. Thank you Wizard. I mentioned it here because it was referring to first post by PPAentertainment I replied to but ended up coming out in an irrevelant place.
Cheers

[Snarky]

I can't help but point out that under the approach I suggested—a very simple, barebones demo game (for example taking the BASS template as a starting point), extended to make separate demos for individual features—this would not have been a problem; anyone could quickly make a demo for whatever they liked, and there wouldn't be a need to agree on anything.

It will be great to add GUI scaling to TODO list for AGS 4.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think this can be implemented fairly easily in a module without adding it as an engine feature—and therefore I don't think it should be added to the engine.

[lapsking]

Sorry for keep ranting but I have an idea if it doesn't make things more complicated. Why not dedicating a MAGS to AGS demo? Without story or any other limitations, the topic can be AGS demo with a list of features that needs to be integrated or something. Whoever wins the MAGS, his game will be used as the demo and if needs a bit more editing people can discuss it when they vote or something.

Edit: you can give it a topic for the story too if it makes it more interesting or just optional or without any topic. The previous winner can give the topic for AGS demo or just one month gap without topic dedicated to AGS demo. I don't think I can win MAGS again to be able to choose the topic, that one was pure luck. But if I could, I would just win for the sake of choosing AGS demo for next month.

[Crimson Wizard]

As I mentioned in another thread, I think this can be implemented fairly easily in a module without adding it as an engine feature—and therefore I don't think it should be added to the engine.

Well, the scaling property may be useful for dynamic effects, it's an expected feature of game objects in contemporary engines. In AGS 4 GUIs may already be rotated, added as a part of rotation feature support (with correct handling of click coordinates for interaction), I don't see why won't they be scaled.

[Danvzare]

@cat @RootBound and @Danvzare seem to be the main contributors so far

Cat and RootBound, yes, definitely. Me... all I've done is made a single simple inventory icon. 

That being said, I'm still for making all of the inventory items. Just tell me what to make. 
Or if there's some other way I can contribute.

[RootBound]

@Danvzare we still need an inventory item image for the gem to be picked up, if you like.

@lapsking because the demo game will hopefully have wide open-source distribution, we want to be very careful about licensing, so it would be best if sound effects were public domain. I realize that's more work, but we do want to be as careful as possible.    That said, I forgot we may also want a frog rabbit sound.

[lapsking]

@lapsking because the demo game will hopefully have wide open-source distribution, we want to be very careful about licensing, so it would be best if sound effects were public domain. I realize that's more work, but we do want to be as careful as possible.    That said, I forgot we may also want a frog rabbit sound.

I'll send you the toad and hare and whatever sound effects you need after the game came to existence. You shouldn't be worried about SFX right now.
You can also add some mushrooms to your rose garden

That's how one turns story upside down just with SFX. You keep working on backgrounds and story meanwhile. Do your best. Make it the biggest mock-up for eternity. You'll go down into history. You are already getting there without the game.

[Danvzare]

@Danvzare we still need an inventory item image for the gem to be picked up, if you like.

How are these?

If you'd prefer a different shape or colour, just say and I'll redraw it. 
I think they look a little flat, but I suppose that's just the nature of cut gems.

[lapsking]

I think they look a little flat.
[/quote]

Looks as flat as Persian Carpets which influenced Gauguin's flat paintings. Well done, now I think you know better how your inventory item is.

[RootBound]

@Danvzare the gem looks great. Is it using the color palette from earlier in the thread? If not, that's the only change I would suggest. 

[lapsking]

@Danvzare the gem looks great. Is it using the color palette from earlier in the thread? If not, that's the only change I would suggest. 

I think the gem looks better with the contrast. Maybe even a bit more contrast.