How do you collaborate with your team members?

[Recluse]

I'm curious, because I've just signed up a team member for my project. How do the rest of you collaborate with your team members? I'm currently using a PBWiki/Chat interface, but this doesn't allow many members to actually work on the same game files. I'm looking for suggestions as to how the rest of you work on the same game, do you host all the game files on a server, and download and edit them. Or do you piece up the game and have someone put it all together?

It's a little difficult to get things like this done over the internet, I know that some of you communicate in person. But unfortunately no one I know is terribly interested in my project.

Any suggestions or stories about what you've done in the past would be welcome.

[Radiant]

The difficult part lies not in communicating, but in keeping people motivated.

I suggest setting up a private forum for your team, using regular e-mails to keep in touch, and chatting when convenient (which may prove tricky because of time zones, so you may want to set up session times in advance).

It helps to have a central person in charge who collects resources and keeps track of everybody. This person should probably also have other useful skills in game making, because most indie developers tend not to appreciate a "manager" type of person who does not otherwise contribute anything.

Assuming the other people on the team contribute (mainly) art or music, they can send the files to the scripter who will "import" them into AGS. Having multiple scripters on one project is somewhat tricky within AGS, but you can have each work on different rooms and have only one person working on the global script.

[Recluse]

I wonder if it would be possible, in AGS 2.9 to have two different "modes" of AGS... A "server" that hosts all the files involved with the game, and a "host" which can connect to the server and edit all the files neccesary. It would have to include edit locks and such, to keep people from editing files that are already being edited.

I'm not sure how helpful this would be, but at face value it looks good.

Comments?

[Radiant]

Comments?

Not worth the trouble to implement. Download CVS and your problem is solved.

[tube]

Not worth the trouble to implement. Download CVS and your problem is solved.

Please do not download the antiquated CVS when there are several better and more modern version control systems available. Try subversion (SVN) instead if you want an easy but powerful CVS-like system.

I agree that implementing a version control server/client in AGS would most probably not be worth the effort. Maybe embedding support for an existing system like SVN would be a more useful idea? Not that it's much harder to use external tools for the task.

[Recluse]

I figured 3rd party software would probably fix the problem. I'll admit I've never heard of CVS or SVN. I'll have to go google them both.

Thanks for the tip!

[Dave Gilbert]

The difficult part lies not in communicating, but in keeping people motivated.

This is true.  Keeping YOURSELF motivated is half the battle.  If you're just kicking back and waiting for your team to finish work, you'll be waiting for a very long time.  Enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm.  If you remain motivated and enthusiastic, then your team should also.

I've never used a server/host system when doing development.  It's not necessary if the head developer is doing all the programming and dialog writing.  With art, music, and animation, it's not necessary.  At least as far as AGS is concerned.

A forum is a good idea.  Send out an update at least once a week to keep everyone aware of what's going on.  If any assets (art, music, etc) are created, show them to everyone so they know that progress is being made.  Every so often release a beta.

Insist that everyone remain in contact at least once every few days.  Not weeks.  Not months.  Days.  If a team member can't be bothered to send you an  email at least once or twice a week just to touch base, then they probably can't be bothered to do much else.

One thing you have to get used to in Indie Dev is flake outs.   Speak to anyone and they'll all have stories.  Not everybody remains motivated forever.  Keep an eye out for the signs (lack of communication being the primary) and try to deal with it.  If the signs continue, that person is no longer dedicated and there's nothing you can do.  Just accept it, replace the person, and move on.  It's a pain in the neck, and sometimes you feel guilty about replacing someone, but it's worth it because eventually you'll find yourself with a team of people who ARE dedicated.

Anyway, these are some of the things I've learned while working on many team projects.  Best o luck!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Insist that everyone remain in contact at least once every few days.  Not weeks.  Not months.  Days.  If a team member can't be bothered to send you an  email at least once or twice a week just to touch base, then they probably can't be bothered to do much else.

I don't really agree on this one.  If there's nothing to say then why waste time emailing someone?  I work much better when I'm not being bothered regularly, anyway.  I would also say that making contact with the team members is the project leader's job more than it is the individual team members.  As a team leader you need to show your motivation and energy in order to keep the other members interested, especially when no money is involved.  You can do this in a lot of ways, but some of the more important ones are sharing your ideas and being open to input from the team members rather than just expecting output from them.  In a free design situation, you really can't just say 'this is the way the game is going to be and if you don't like it go away'.  It' s neither professional nor beneficial and in the long run you'll earn a well deserved reputation for not being someone people want to work with.  The best project leader is going to encourage feedback and input from the team members.  It's very difficult to maintain interest in someone else's project when your creative input is ignored or not asked for, and a good leader also should know that their ideas may not be the best, but with some brainstorming they could be better.  Of course if you're paying people for a project that should be motivation enough, but I still wouldn't recommend shutting your team members out of the creative loop.

[Dave Gilbert]

I don't think 1-2 emails a week is a lot to ask, even if it's to say "Sorry, my cat's been sick and I've made no progress."  If a team member goes 2-3 weeks without touching base or responding to emails, then I assume they aren't doing any work.  If I don't see it, I don't know it exists.  And if they are busy and can't be bothered to tell me, then obviously they don't take the project seriously enough. 

In any type of work environment, you always need "face time" at the office.  In an internet work environment, you need the same, whether it be emails or IMs or forum posts.  It's very easy to slip away and disappear on the internet, and any project leader knows this.  When you've dealt with enough flake outs, you'll begin to recognize the signs.  Lack of communication is the first thing to look out for.

It's a pain and it does make you feel like a bastard sometimes, but it pays off.  Eventually you'll wind up with a team of people you know you can rely on, and you won't have to resort to such draconian measures.

[Vince Twelve]

You can do this in a lot of ways, but some of the more important ones are sharing your ideas and being open to input from the team members rather than just expecting output from them.  In a free design situation, you really can't just say 'this is the way the game is going to be and if you don't like it go away'.  It' s neither professional nor beneficial and in the long run you'll earn a well deserved reputation for not being someone people want to work with.  The best project leader is going to encourage feedback and input from the team members.  It's very difficult to maintain interest in someone else's project when your creative input is ignored or not asked for, and a good leader also should know that their ideas may not be the best, but with some brainstorming they could be better.

This is fantastic advice for a team leader.  Let me know if I'm not doing as well as I should in any of these regards.  I think that I'm always open for suggestions especially on areas where my skill is low (art, music), but then again, I may be too rigid sometimes because I know exactly what I'm looking for -- a side effect of writing out a detailed design document laying out every puzzle and plot point months before beginning full production.  I'm constantly learning about, through the process of failing at, being a project leader.  Feel free to help my learning process!  Errr...  In private...

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You are horrible!  Actually, I have no criticisms, Vince.  You're doing just fine imo.  Dave, on the other hand :p

[Nikolas]

Yes Vince,

You are darn awful. This is why I'm still working with you at our second game together

[m0ds]

I use forums. I find they are the best way to have what you need to know written & stored. I'm not a fan of dealing with "business" over MSN - though I may use it to say hi (rarely though). But I don't like conducting business over messengers because I don't like storing chat data as design data.

If you're able to set up a forum I think that'd be the best way about it. Even a free forum can help you out. For FoY, we've been incredibly lucky to have help from Miez and Lorn who've set up websites & various back-end thingymabobs that we can store all bug reports, game files etc on. If you're working on a big project something like that is essential, because, as you know - things DO get lost in time, forever!

Also, the Wiki thing is a great idea. We use one too, and it's very useful, especially for placing all the draft scripts etc in.

[cosmicr]

The difficult part lies not in communicating, but in keeping people motivated.

One thing you have to get used to in Indie Dev is flake outs.   Speak to anyone and they'll all have stories. 

hehe, yep. I have one. Jimmi “Serge” Thøgersen. Perhaps the biggest vaporware in the history of amateur adventure game making. google SCRAMM.

[Recluse]

Whew! Thanks for the advice. It's all been very helpful.

Is there any possible way to identify flake-outs before you sign them on to the project?

I've already had some people say "I wanna help, but I don't know what I could do." To which my reply is, "I'll put you on the list of play testers... we'll contact you once we've got a play-testable version of the game handy."

[Radiant]

Is there any possible way to identify flake-outs before you sign them on to the project?

What I usually do is give them any kind of assignment that would be useful within the game, and see if they complete it in a timely fashion. For instance, a room or a character with 4-way walk cycles or a minute or two of music.

If they do, you can give them more things to do and/or ask their feedback on whatever, plus you get to see if their style and quality matches what you had in mind.

If they don't, chances are good they're a flake-out (not always, real life has a tendency of interfering with any and all of us). If they're nice, they'll tell you that they had less time than they expected; if not, you'll simply never hear from them again.

Incidentally, except for some non-native speakers, there tends to be a strong correlation between a person's level of English (grammar, vocabulary, punctuation) used in forum posts, and that person's competence in whatever you might ask their help for.

I've already had some people say "I wanna help, but I don't know what I could do." To which my reply is, "I'll put you on the list of play testers...

If you want my advice, don't. Good playtesters are less common than you might think, and mediocre playtesters are pretty much worthless. A good playtester is analytical, will try to wreck your game, try a hundred things you hadn't thought of, and find a bucketful of bugs in the first room.

A bad playtester will hang around your forum asking how to solve the first puzzle, then come back the next day asking how to solve the second, effectively being a time sink. A single good playtester is better than a dozen poor ones. For comparison, ATOTK had three good playtesters, and that's all we needed.

You don't need a large amount of people to help you. Quality over quantity. Be realistic in your expectations of other people - if someone wants to help but doesn't actually do anything constructive, it's up to you whether you want to keep them around or not, but at least admit to yourself that said person isn't really helping the project.

[Mortis]

My apologies for reviving up such an old thread, but I feel much of the thread is very "relevant to my interests" - especially since the quality of this thread so far is very high. In other words, after searching around in the forum a little, this thread was - in my view - one of the best examples of established authors discussing different collaborative practices.

In fact, as many of the responses here are by rather prominent members of the scene, with several released, "successful" games behind them - my question is, would any of the posters be interested in reflecting back on their answers, for instance, in relation to the events of the past six months?

Have your working methods changed? Have you learned new lessons about project management or collaboration? Have you found out anything of importance - new collaborative software, for instance: Do any of you utilize wiki platforms or file repositories (in the vein of CVS/SVN)?

I noticed at least m0ds said his project(s) was using a wiki:

Also, the Wiki thing is a great idea. We use one too, and it's very useful, especially for placing all the draft scripts etc in.

Regarding this, who do yo guys think should be qualified to actually modifying wiki content, and should everyone on the team have access to one in the first place? Has anyone ever had members actually causing intentional harm?

Lastly, if the original poster Recluse himself happens to wander back to thread, I'd be interested in knowing if he ever settled on utilizing a specific working platform. Thanks again!

[Dualnames]

Pretty wondeful. Though we haven't reached a better comunication as I was always aiming and hoping for.. Most of my teammembers have only speaken to me and despite they're more in there they don't have any other communication with other team members..I just ask each one what I need for and they take time and make it happen... Most people don;t even know the story of the game... :o

[The Ivy]

I've been in team projects as both a participant and an organizer, and I think instant messages have been the best way to keep in touch with everyone.

When I was working on art for "Unbound," it was a good way to get feedback along the way, and to change things that Dave didn't like before I put too much work into them. It also really encouraged me to keep going when I got positive feedback, and I could make serious progress on a background just by checking in every once in a while.

As an organizer, IMs were useful for when team members have questions that I hadn't thought of. I'd much rather be able to talk to that person about my ideas rather than answer a long email. And then there's the added bonus of being able to bounce ideas around, rather than waiting for emails.

I realize instant messages aren't as businesslike as email, but for my games they've been incredibly helpful. The better you get to know your teammates, the more fun they are to work with. And fun gets things done. It rhymes...it must be true. 

With Nanobots, Vince and I have started using Google docs to exchange ideas. We're both looking at the game walkthrough, and he marks off which items he's programmed and which he still needs animations for. It's not as timely as instant messaging, although it saves me the trouble of staying up until 3am here/midafternoon Japan time.

[Nikolas]

Time for my more serious reply to this...

I use MSN, Y! messanger, AIM and Skype... Not while I use my music software but when I'm online in general, with main interest in MSN, which everyone seems to be using.

I am also part in many forums and I do post, but the 2 commercial projects I work are hugely different. Atropos studios does not have forums and everything is moving through e-mails as Alkis does not use MSN. But we do call each other (both Greek! ) It just works but there does seem to be a lack of communication some times, and I do tend to forget some things (which can happen after a year of develpomement). Forums would work.

The other project I'm working on is with Vince, and he uses forums and MSN (but world clock differences create a bit of a problem for both of us! ) Still the regular post in the forums is "... as we talked in MSN..." and so on! It just works.

google docs works great!

Keeping in touch works great and I try to be in touch as much as possible and all parties I work with are notified that I'm away from the studio, and in advance in case they need anything.

I also try my best to actually meet in person with the people I work with! I met Radiant in person when he was in London, I've met Lemmy and Binky from the forgotten element, met alkis and will meet again around this time, I hope, and I really hope to meet vince (+ family actually! ) I just know it will be huge fun! I've also made great friends with some internet people, like Thomas Regin (the marvelous composer behind Daves latest game ) etc... I can trust him and I've met his girlfriend and daughter as well (and he's met my wife and kids). Internet is a bless I say!

I do think that it takes great people to work well together and I've been very lucky so far as all the people I've worked with are great people, who I admire and respect (and I feel that they feel the same for me, which makes me even more eager to work with them! ) And, of course, they do a great job, which only adds to my own resume and bio/portfolio, so it's a win/win/win/win situation for me!