All fun and games

simulacra · Mon 09/08/2004 15:45:44

I am kind curious... why are there so many adventure games who are of the corny cartoonish type? It's not that I do not like fun stuff, but it seems that the form (graphical point-and-click) has merged with a genre (funny and absurd cartoons). If I go to an average book store, there are books with stories that are similar to the majority of adventure games but they do not constitute 90 percent of the titles. (Perhaps too much, but you get my point.)

This is of course caused by the history of the game genre, which during it's golden age was made for a target audience of kids, adolecents and young adults. Because these were the kind of people who was buying entertainment software at the time. And guess what kind of stories catered to this kind of audience, a kind that the target audiences parents were likely to buy at christmas as gifts... cartoonish fun.

I get the feeling that there are lots of interesting stories that are left untold. And I also get a feeling that many game makers still are making games for kids, perhaps because they are kids themselves or want to remember how it was back then... Nothing wrong in that, but if you are thinking of making an interactive story... think original. Don't make a game which already has been done, over and over again.

Over and out.

DGMacphee · Mon 09/08/2004 16:29:57

I think the cartoonish genre seems like a decent one to use with AGS because AGS works with cel animation. Granted, you can you more photo-realistic stuff, but not everyone is a Rembrandt and not everyone has a blue-screen set-up.

But there are shining examples of non-cartoonish adventure games. Gabriel Knight, Under A Killing Moon or Police Quest 4, for example. It's just a matter of finding them, I guess.

edmundito · Mon 09/08/2004 18:14:56

I dunno. It seems like a lot of peole like Day of the Tentacle and want to make it like that. Other AGS games (King's Quest VGA, 5 days a stranger/7 days a skeptic, and Ben Jordan: Paranormal Investigator) have the look of the adventure games of yesteryear, and if you think about it, all games back in the day featured that as the "realistic" look.

In the mid 90s, the adventure game leaders (Sierra and LucasArts) and even others like (Revolution) had the brilliant (? not really) idea that the next step to higher resolutions would be a cartoon style if it's going to be animated, while everyone else turned into 3D. So games like Larry 7, King's Quest 8, Broken Sword, and Curse of Monkey Island had this look to them. It's another favorite look, and probably one of the easier to make for people who can draw.

I'm hoping that my game has some sort of combination between storybook painted background. and "mission hill" (http://www.msnhill.com/wallpaper/city-at-night-640.jpeg) because I like realism, but also I like a lot of just solid black in my backgrounds. It would still follow the late 90's style, I guess, but it would have a more photo-realistic feel to it. However, it is a lot easier just to go for a cartoony look like the RON games since you don't have to worry about too much detail.

Comercial adventure games these days all have a realistic look... Syberia, The Longest Journey, etc. I never understood why LucasArts would make Full Throttle: Hell on Wheels so cartoony, since it could have easily been made as a GTA-like game. And then there's Escape from Monkey Island, which is super-cartoony even for 3D. They should have just made the character look more real like they did in the earlier Monkey Island games.

simulacra · Mon 09/08/2004 18:33:47

Well, of course there is the drawing reasons. But it still doesn't quite explain why there isn't many Sandman (http://www.kupla.net/fest2003/sandman.jpg, Marvel Comics) game for instance. Or comics, err, games with darker moods. An illustration doesn't necessarily need to be humoristic, even though illustative-style is easy to make.

Snarky · Mon 09/08/2004 23:03:48

Sandman isn't Marvel. Vertigo Comics, an imprint of DC.

I don't grant your premise. While there's certainly a good deal of cartoony adventure games (even today: Runaway), there are just as many that aren't the least bit corny. Gabriel Knight, Phantasmagoria, Sanitarium, Blade Runner, Prisoner of Ice, The Longest Journey...

And what about AGS efforts like The Uncertainty Machine and KQ2VGA?

simulacra · Tue 10/08/2004 00:46:59

Yes, of course. Vertigo it is. I miced them up, for some reason. You are all of course right in that there are titles which are different and that are very nice indeed. But still... the majority of titles seem to share a certain style, both graphically and how the story is told.

Snarky · Tue 10/08/2004 02:20:11

Are you talking adventure games in general, or AGS games specifically? Recently or historically?

I think the main reason why it seems like most adventure games are humorous and cartoony is LucasArts. Many of the biggest hit games were LucasArts games, and pretty much all of them were cartoony. Sierra was split more like 50/50, and games from other publishers were serious more often than not, I'd say. For every 'Simon the Sorcerer' there was a 'I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream' or 'Bad Day on the Midway'. For every 'Legend of Kyrandia' a 'Bad Mojo' or 'Dark Seed'.

Then there are a number of games that have a cartoony style but play it fairly seriously ('Fate of Atlantis', 'The Dig', 'Beneath a Steel Sky', 'Broken Sword'), or that bring both the funny and the scary ('The Pandora Directive').

If you're yearning for more dark adventure games, I'm sure you must be looking forward to 'Fahrenheit'. It is the most imminent major adventure game release that I'm aware of (Q4 2004), and has some kind of Memento/Dark City-style serial killer plot.

BerserkerTails · Tue 10/08/2004 02:23:55

When I think of adventure games, I think first of all the old sierra games, because that's what I grew up on. The VGA ones (SCI04) all had pretty realistic graphics, in comparison to alot of the later Lucasarts game, so I actually remember, in my mind, that there's more realistic adventure games than carttony ones.

Snarky · Tue 10/08/2004 02:31:15

If you're sick of cute cartoon games, and you've played all the great serious AGS games that are out there, Just Adventure may have have some articles for you:

The 10 Scariest Games of All Time
The 10 Best Adventure Games That (Almost) No One Has Ever Played

simulacra · Tue 10/08/2004 10:37:58

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 10/08/2004 02:20:11
Are you talking adventure games in general, or AGS games specifically? Recently or historically?

Both and both actually. I am not sick about cute games at all as the matter of fact, it just struck me that a majority of adventure games seemed to share a certain style and wanted to discuss the issue.

Jockstrap · Tue 10/08/2004 11:49:09

I think it's easier on two levels to make the more humourous games. The obvious one being that you don't really need great artistic dexterity in order to make the game. You can just draw a couple of smiley faces with arms and legs and say that it's part of your disposition and style, and it will probably append to the overall humour and feel.

Likewise, you can simply make your game totally insane in dialog and plot and, again, say it's your disposition. It's much easier to make something funny successfully than it is to make something convincingly serious, terrifying or moving. Sometimes a game (or gamemaker) can strive to be so serious that the game just becomes laughable in its attempts. Not that you can't be without humour in your game successfully, it's just a lot harder. Especially in the amateur world of adventure making, and especially when someone is just discovering the medium.

Andail · Tue 10/08/2004 14:13:56

As hard as it is to make a serious game actually serious, and not just amusingly pretentious, making a game truly humourous is no picnic in the park.

Most AGS games turn out rather "goofy", which means they aren't serious, but they don't attempt to be overly clever in the joke department either, they're just rather easy going and crazy.

As stated above, puzzles and their solutions are easier to design if you don't have to get it realistic and logical. Realistic games often have a hard time presenting interesting puzzles that aren't just straight every-day actions (like using key on lock, batteries in machine, ammunition in gun, etc) and still not absurd and far-fetched.

Serious games require that you get involved in the plot in order to fully appreciate it; comedy games can provide instant entertainment just by presenting funny animations and curious puzzles.

In the end though, a truly serious game - one whose plot and characters really grabbed you - will probably leave a greater, longer-lasting imprint on your mind than a humourous game can ever do.

rodekill · Tue 10/08/2004 23:48:09

I've got a serious game planned out in some Word file somewhere, but my art skill can't do it justice, so yeah, that's probably the problem a lot of the time.

simulacra · Thu 12/08/2004 11:57:18

I can just agree with you, Jockstrap and Andail. Another aspect is that it takes more time (and thus game-design work) to build up other emotions than instant fun. I am currently working on a game project set in a depressed, dark surreal setting where I've noticed that it's a fine balance between going crazy and doing it just right. I am aiming to induce a feeling that you are losing control of yourself and has noticed that it takes much longer to achive that effect than being funny.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Sat 14/08/2004 17:58:48

Yes, but it's controversially much easier. And is it more rewarding? I wonder. I myself can never be funny enough, but I can always whip something up to try and reach other emotions.

As failed sitcoms and parodies and comedy games have taught us, maybe comedy's the hardest of them all...

Snarky · Wed 18/08/2004 00:33:05

Quote from: Andail on Tue 10/08/2004 14:13:56
In the end though, a truly serious game - one whose plot and characters really grabbed you - will probably leave a greater, longer-lasting imprint on your mind than a humourous game can ever do.

I wonder if that's borne out in practice? Looking at the titles tributed with fangames, it seems like humorous titles like Monkey Island, Space Quest and Maniac Mansion have seriously imprinted a huge number of minds.

Goldmund · Mon 30/08/2004 01:00:50

Maniac Mansion sure imprinted my mind, but when I played it I was a kid with so little understanding of English (and American pop culture - remember I lived behind the Iron Curtain) that I thought it was meant to be fully serious.
Try to imagine this and you'll get quite a perverted and nightmarish game.

The question of imprinting is unfair in itself, since almost any product of culture you meet as a child will have a stronger impact than it is the case when you're older. For example, I was quite impressed with a single episode of A-Team that circulated Poland as a stand-alone film on pirated tapes.
Thus, I cannot really tell if I Have No Mouth and I must Scream, or Planescape: Torment (to mention two of my currently favourite titles) would leave a stronger mark on my psyche. There were no serious games here when I was a kid.

Still, it's not said that humorous games cannot be meaningful - for example, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, while overall being a damn funny game, had its very touching moments, esp. in the part about friendship with the vampire guy.