AGS Awards 2013! - Wieners (and winners)

[Babar]

I'm a bit confused. Are we talking specifically about Primordia here? Why all surreptitious about it?

As I see it, I don't find any issue with a game being added to the DB even years later, to allow eligibility. It's a bit odd to do, but whatever. I also support the idea that games wishing to be eligible for the AGS awards need to be in the DB, and they'll be considered for the year they were put in. It's on the game's creators whether they want to or not.

I'm also feeling that I agree with LimpingFish's idea of only allowing commercial games to be eligible for the Best Commercial Game award. The other option would be to have a "Commercial" version of every award, and that just wouldn't be feasible.

Speaking of trimming the award categories, here are the voted categories from last year:
    Best Game Created with AGS
    Best Gameplay
    Best Original Story
    Best Dialogue Writing
    Best Puzzles
    Best Short Game
    Best Demo
    Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS
    Best Player Character
    Best Non-Player Character
    Best Background Art
    Best Character Art
    Best Animation
    Best Programming
    Best Tutorial or Documentation
    Best Sound Effects
    Best Music
    Best Voice Work

I'm curious about the voter turnout. I realise AGS usually has it low for the awards in general, and there are many who champion the more obscure awards (Best Tutorial or Documentation, for example), but if we had something like less than 10 votes for a certain category, maybe we can skip it? And perhaps combine some of them as well?

[Peder 🚀]

I told myself I wouldn't discuss this matter or any other community related matter and rather concentrate on making AGSA a killer service but I'd just like to comment on one thing:

I'm curious about the voter turnout. I realise AGS usually has it low for the awards in general, and there are many who champion the more obscure awards (Best Tutorial or Documentation, for example), but if we had something like less than 10 votes for a certain category, maybe we can skip it? And perhaps combine some of them as well?

A good reason there will NEVER be many votes with the current system is that it is limited to forum users. I would think there are many many AGS game players that never have and never will register on the forums, and I feel this design is a flaw.. Sure this will then also raise the issue with commercial games which are likely to have more coverage outside of the AGS community, so my suggestion is to ask a group of people from the AGS community to take on the task on rethinking the system behind the awards and how to make it better all together for any future awards.

That's all from me for this thread, if anyone feels the need to comment on anything I just said etc I suggest sending me a PM.

[Andail]

How about two classes, with only 5 categories in each?
Like

Best commercial game
Best art in a commercial game
Best music in a commercial game
Best story in a commercial game
Best puzzles in a commercial game

Best free game
Best art in a free game
Best music in a free game
Best story in a free game
Best puzzles in a free game

Then we won't have to deal with dozens of obscure/redundant categories that nobody cares about, plus non-commercial games won't have to compete against commercial games, plus all commercial games won't have to fight for only one award.

PS:
I agree with Peder that not only AGSers should be able to vote, but if we open it up for the public, some sort of quick registration is probably in order - we don't want someone's 500 facebook friends popping in just to push a button.

[Ghost]

How about two classes, with only 5 categories in each?

I like that, and I think there really are enough commercial AGS games by now to justify that step. Good idea!

[miguel]

+1 Andail.
You have my full support.

As for Primordia I am fine that it does enter this year awards. If a game has not competed on former years there shouldn't be a problem if a dev decides to enter the awards. If the game is any good it will get votes, if not it doesn't matter the year it was made. Marketing strategy is all around us and spending time and energy fighting it is pointless in my opinion.

However, we could have the community decide by voting if the rules should be changed or not. Maybe this way there wouldn't be any grudges left.

[dactylopus]

Personally, I think a game should only be eligible for the year it was released.

If we need a requirement, I'm not sure if the database entry should be necessary, but perhaps a Completed Game Announcement would be a better requirement.  It seems sometimes people either forget about the database, or take their time getting around to it, but most people make an Announcement topic when their game is released.  Then again, it might not be needed at all.  Since we have this topic, people could simply post in there that they are interested in eligibility for the awards, and if they meet the criteria, they're in!

About categories, I also think there are too many.  I think we should keep the best Non-Adventure Game category.  Other categories could be combined, as long as everyone understands what is included.  For example, I like Best Sound over Best Music, because Sound would include Sound Effects and Voice Acting.  I'd also like to see commercial games separated from free games.  It could simply be the Best Commercial Game award, or it could be a complete split in categories.  Either is fine.

So here's my idea of a list:

    Best Free Game Created with AGS
    Best Commercial Game Created with AGS
    Best Gameplay (Puzzles, Programming)
    Best Writing (Story, Dialogue)
    Best Art (Background, Character, Animation)
    Best Sound (Effects, Music, Voice)
    Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS

Again, not sure if we need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games, but there should at least be a separation for the Best Game category.

[Andail]

Let's throw in some more suggestions, and then we can start a poll and settle it once and for all.

[Ghost]

Best game overall
Best art
Best music
Best story
Best puzzles

Those are fine and make the main bulk.

In addition:

Best Non-Adventure: This really is a must (though probably more for the free than for the commercial games).

Best Programming: I always saw that as a nice nod towards making creative little effects, interesting GUIs and all. I'd like that to stay.

[Volcan]

Personally, I think a game should only be eligible for the year it was released.

If we need a requirement, I'm not sure if the database entry should be necessary, but perhaps a Completed Game Announcement would be a better requirement.  It seems sometimes people either forget about the database, or take their time getting around to it, but most people make an Announcement topic when their game is released.  Then again, it might not be needed at all.  Since we have this topic, people could simply post in there that they are interested in eligibility for the awards, and if they meet the criteria, they're in!

About categories, I also think there are too many.  I think we should keep the best Non-Adventure Game category.  Other categories could be combined, as long as everyone understands what is included.  For example, I like Best Sound over Best Music, because Sound would include Sound Effects and Voice Acting.  I'd also like to see commercial games separated from free games.  It could simply be the Best Commercial Game award, or it could be a complete split in categories.  Either is fine.

So here's my idea of a list:

    Best Free Game Created with AGS
    Best Commercial Game Created with AGS
    Best Gameplay (Puzzles, Programming)
    Best Writing (Story, Dialogue)
    Best Art (Background, Character, Animation)
    Best Sound (Effects, Music, Voice)
    Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS

Again, not sure if we need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games, but there should at least be a separation for the Best Game category.

I disagree.

We need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games too.

Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.

[dactylopus]

I disagree.

We need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games too.

Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.

That works for me, too.  I don't mind a complete separation, but I'd be happy as long as Best Game is separated.

[Radiant]

So here's my idea of a list:

I'm not seeing any issues with the current list of categories; we traditionally get sufficient and diverse votes for each. So I don't really see the point in reducing it. Perhaps we need to scrap one or two categories, but I think a proposal of "scrapping most of them" goes much too far.

[selmiak]

I would make this dynamic depending on the number of commercial games released in the year. How many commercial games are elegible for the 2013 awards? TCL was 2012, right? Having primordia compete against itself in a commercial games categories is no fun. After all, all these games are made with AGS. But after reading that wadjet eye are planning to release 3 games this year (or something like that) and having hired a great full time artist, the 2014 awards could live on a special commercial category for all competitors to that and not make it impossible for hobbyist effort to go totally unnoticed and unrewarded.

[Ponch]

Best Barn Runner Game (Short)
Best Barn Runner Game (Long)
Best Non-Barn Runner Game
Special Achievement In The Field Of Barn Runnering


Also, I second Ghost's support for Best Non-Adventure and Best Programming.

[Peder 🚀]

How many commercial games are elegible for the 2013 awards?

There seems to be at least 4!

Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.

Again I just had to step in and post another comment...
This statement couldn't be further from the truth! Many of the FREE games have just as good if not even better artists than some commercial AGS games. And if this was to be a reason you might as well just make a whole different category for games that look good and games that don't...

[dactylopus]

So here's my idea of a list:

I'm not seeing any issues with the current list of categories; we traditionally get sufficient and diverse votes for each. So I don't really see the point in reducing it. Perhaps we need to scrap one or two categories, but I think a proposal of "scrapping most of them" goes much too far.

With this in mind, these are the categories I think could be dropped without too much issue:

    Best Demo
    Best Player Character
    Best Non-Player Character
    Best Tutorial or Documentation

I still think other categories could be combined, though.  Maybe not to the extent that I recommended earlier, but some combinations wouldn't be unreasonable.

[Grim]

I personally like what Andail suggested, although maybe being introduced next year, when there are more commercial games? (can't think of a single one to be honest... but I'm sure there were some. Conspirocracy?)

One thing everyone should remember, is that commercial AGS games are still often made by one person or a very small group at most, and in most cases on no budget. The scope, the length, the graphics- that's down to the creator's effort and dedication, not shady deals with EA paying for robots to make the high res art for the game. They often start their life as free test-games only to grow bigger and bigger and eventually become commercial. And there's nothing dirty or unfair about it. Look at Cart Life- phenomenal idea followed by a phenomenal success! (and there's nothing expensive or shiny about this one)

At the same time, it's a thing of beauty that so many wonderful free games are being made by the community- the Unfolding Spider, Time Stone, Eternally Us... and many many more. AGS would not be the same without them. I understand they NEED recognition for what they achieve in their own way, as short stories that inspire with creativity and prove that you can make AGS a hobby, and don't necessarily have to say goodbye to your family and job to make them.

Sorry for ranting...  

And to add to Primordia issue (although it has been withdrawn, I know) as far as I understand it, it was released in 2012 (one day after me, how could I forget that!;))so... no. I personally don't think it's eligible.   

[Radiant]

    Best Demo
    Best Player Character
    Best Non-Player Character
    Best Tutorial or Documentation

Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.

[Ponch]

Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.

I agree. A good character or NPC can really make a game come alive. I'd hate to see those categories go away.

[dactylopus]

    Best Demo
    Best Player Character
    Best Non-Player Character
    Best Tutorial or Documentation

Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.

They were just suggestions, as I felt they had the least to do with making the game itself.  All of the awards have some merit.  Which ones do you think are extraneous?

[bicilotti]

I am glad to see such discussion taking place. For the records: I look with favour to what dactylopus proposed (obviously changing the word "free" with "freeware", we don't want to anger Stallman).
To be honest I am against creating separate categories for commercial games, for the reasons m0ds illustrated, because we risk to have a year without many commercial releases (how many are there this year? Aren't they so few they are basically automatically in the short list of nominees) and because with less awards the mere fact of being nominated would be regarded as a great achievement.

As for stats, they are here.

Re: vote turnout. One year I had to scrap an award (best documentation/tutorial) after the nomination phase because no games received the necessary 5 preferences.

As for opening the voting to non-members, mhhh maybe but we need to keep tampering at a minimum.


To whoever, for whichever reason disagrees with whatever: rest assured none of this will pass without a community vote.